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[hector13]

Right, preliminary thoughts are that KnightWing, Toony, Max, and Tric’s actions have all been accounted for, leaving the only people to do the kill as me, NJW, and Jim.

Targeting Tric because of his attract, I learned nothing particularly interesting.

NJW appears to be claiming to have been disabled.

Jim, as yet unknown action.

Slightly bothered by KW and Jim’s claims to be a befriender, though mostly KW’s targeting of Tric since a) Tric is removed from the game on befriending which doesn’t really benefit town and b) Toony claimed what is now a pretty much confirmed ability to convert TP to town c) Tric’s most reasonable choices were to target NJW and trigger Jim’s claimed befriend/infect or the attract, both of which take him out the game, or global attract to be converted to town but also very likely, now confirmed, draw the kill.

This would lead me to believe if the scum team is only one member, KW is a contender, but not first choice for it. However, in the Xylbot list the friendly neighbour is always town so… something probably not worth worrying about?

I was ruminating during the night time of the game, and was worried that Toony was playing NJW a bit regarding their support for FoU’s weirdness on D1, but given how the night played out and Toony’s claimed “convert” to town, I’m pretty sure he’s town. It seems vanishingly unlikely scum would have the ability to convert an unaligned role into what would be an atagonist faction to them though, so Toony is town.

I’d rather not assume there isn’t two scum, given the potential MYLO consequences, but… I’m still pretty convinced that NJW is scum, based on what I had issue with D1 and the somewhat bizarre arguments being presented on D2, like FoU’s flip being false. FoU did bring up that people should claim any bizarro abilities like that, after all.

You really think FoU wanted to live? There was zero chance of eliminating you, four or five people ready to flip me, and he thought I was insanely and obviously scummy.

His play sometimes looks stubborn and weak, but is he really THAT pigheaded?

You remember that quote from FoU I used to illustrate my distaste for third parties claiming to be a boon to town? That’s FoU in a nutshell. Further in that game he was wholly convinced that his ability to sell actions to the town as a third party was a boon to the town he basically claimed being third-party in his first post in that game.

So yeah, FoU reads as frustrated town, possibly panicking to get out of a hole. His reads list was alright, illustrating his PoE of what he thought the scum team was, he just decided to focus on the player he felt he could make a better case on. I’ve done that before, in slightly different circumstances of a cop claim of scum on someone else.

Further, you are insanely and obviously scum :p

To be perfectly honest your play so far on D2 looks like you’re trying to deflect suspicion onto other players or argue that the information we have from D1 is not useful because the D1 elimination flip was false.

If the D1 elimination flip was a wash, and N1 wasn’t informative due to Tric’s global attract, what do we do?

PPE: and Max is being enigmatic. As usual.

[Maximum Spin]

PPE: and Max is being enigmatic. As usual.

I honestly want to explain fully, but it now involves information about Jim. If it was just claiming my own stuff I'd prefer to explain what happened so everyone's informed, but since Jim was so cagey about what he gained when he claimed it, I don't really want to mess it up for him.

[hector13]

Jim is a suspect though, at least as it pertains to his currently unknown night action.

I mean, thinking about it, KW isn’t clear necessarily because their action can’t be confirmed, but… I think it’s still more likely to be among me, Jim, and NJW.

[Maximum Spin]

Jim is a suspect though, at least as it pertains to his currently unknown night action.

I agree, that's why I want to hear back from him. If he doesn't cooperate, I'll just spill his secrets.

[hector13]

Jim is a suspect though, at least as it pertains to his currently unknown night action.

I agree, that's why I want to hear back from him. If he doesn't cooperate, I'll just spill his secrets.

Fair enough.

Though considering that I should be clear about something:

NJW: what makes you think you were disabled during the night, and what action were you performing?

[NJW2000]

NJW appears to be claiming to have been disabled.

Kindly don't put words in my mouth. I don't know if I've been disabled, I'm trying to figure it out. I won't have been if Tric used the attract, which he seems to have.

If you'd like to help with this and aren't too busy, try casting a vote and asking for a votecount. Any, arbitrary one, that should tell us something about whether or not I was disabled. This is a clue about my role, but I'm not giving all the information away.

This would lead me to believe if the scum team is only one member, KW is a contender, but not first choice for it. However, in the Xylbot list the friendly neighbour is always town so… something probably not worth worrying about?

You understand the roles this game come from a procedural generator that assembles abilities at random, not the Xylbot? Because if not, I'm going to get a little frustrated.

A defense of Knightwing this nonsensical rings alarm bells.

FoU did bring up that people should claim any bizarro abilities like that, after all.

I'm suggesting that FoU may not have actually been town.

If the D1 elimination flip was a wash, and N1 wasn’t informative due to Tric’s global attract, what do we do?

well, how to put it...

For srs though, the day game is more important than the night game. The longer we can avoid the game devolving into “I did this and you did that and someone else blocked them” a la the most recent begBYOR the better, but that’s just me.

Oh yes, we'd actually ****ing scumhunt.

Further, you are insanely and obviously scum :p

THEN PRESENT A CASE ON ME.

Don't post tedious and contorted textwalls devoted to defending FoU. Don't repeat over and over that I'm obviously scum, the way FoU did. Don't go on endlessly about games that happened half a decade ago.

Just write out some reasons you think I'm scum, so that other players can see them. And if I'm insanely and obviously scum, people will vote me. Which should be something you want, if you're town.



Right now, I think FoU and Hector's behaviour yesterday looks astonishingly like a scum gambit to clear Hector via FoU's fake flip. Hard-defending a townie gets one town-read, but the flip needs to occur for Hector to actually be trusted. This is why FoU shows no genuine desire to live, despite claiming I am insanely scummy. Naturally, he goes after a much harder player to eliminate D1, and a stronger player than myself, i.e. Toonyman. Also good for getting Toony out of the way rather than myself on D2. Which explains Hector's certainty that I'm scum, but strange reticence in presenting a case on me and voting for me.

Max... thinks this isn't the case, because of something role-related. I don't really know what that could be, but if it's certain, it means I'm wrong about this.

Max: how sure are you FoU's alignment flipped correctly?

[Maximum Spin]

Max: how sure are you FoU's alignment flipped correctly?

Almost completely. If it didn't, some member of town is withholding that information for no reason.

[hector13]

It was NQT talking about adding Xylbot-inspired roles in the pre-game that got me thinking it was based off that list, my mistake.

I’m also not defending KW there, considering I’m throwing shade on KW..? You tell me not to put words in your mouth? Kindly do the same. This is not the only example of misrepresentation in your post:

I presented a case about you yesterday in that wall of text post “defending” FoU, in case you skipped over it. The wall of text was not devoted to defending FoU, it was devoted to illustrating that I didn’t see FoU’s play as scummy, and why you were scum as a consequence with additional supporting evidence. I even suggested Jim and Max as potential partners!

You also specifically asked if FoU was that pigheaded and stubborn, and the game I keep referencing provides an excellent example of such. Related: you were going to go over some of Max’s scum games, which at least implies you think we can derive value from looking at player’s meta, like FoU’s stubborn/pigheadedness and my hatred of third-parties from MafiaKart, so why are you trying to suggest references to other games is of no value?

Did you look at any of Max’s games, btw?

You are trying to suggest FoU may not have been town despite strong evidence to the contrary in a flip, based on Max’s claim that Max’s flip will be inaccurate. You’re doing that because Toony has said if FoU flips town you are probably scum, and I said in the second last post of the day that you and FoU are not on the same team.

!WIFOM bit!

Your argument I was chainsaw defending FoU for the town-cred also doesn’t make sense. A great deal of the argument against it is WIFOM, but just assume that in a power heavy game like this, I am not for high risk, low reward plays like chainsaw defending my partner on D1, linking us for the rest of the game and putting both of us front and center for any investigate abilities if we both happen to survive D1, and I don’t think I have a strong enough scum game in general to survive as lone scum after losing my partner D1, never mind in a power heavy game.

!End of WIFOM bit!

Anyway, you seem to be suggesting that FoU was building cases against Toony in an effort to remove them from the game, but making those cases deliberately weak so he gets lynched and I get town-cred from a fake flip? Those seem mutually exclusive, but I’ll give you the opportunity to clarify.

I’m reticent to vote because it might be MYLO, and I don’t know what abilities the scum may have. I also scumread you strongly, and have not been afraid to say that. Consequently, I’m also reticent to do as you demand :p

[NJW2000]

You were saying we didn't need to worry about KW because of the Xylbot stuff. Hence defending him.

I'm not taking evidence from a game five years ago as anything, and I don't rely that strongly on meta.

I looked at Max's games because he's been scum once or twice recently, and I find him hard to read in general... I didn't find anything of use.

I don't think FoU's flip incriminates me. If they wanted to play that way, so be it.

Anyway, you seem to be suggesting that FoU was building cases against Toony in an effort to remove them from the game, but making those cases deliberately weak so he gets lynched and I get town-cred from a fake flip? Those seem mutually exclusive, but I’ll give you the opportunity to clarify.

The idea was that more attention would be paid to his claims after his death.

Anyhow, Max seems to be pretty sure that that isn't the case.


Ok... regarding the voting thing, I can't even tell whether or not I succeeded last night if you don't vote for someone, or tell me whether or not you were voteblocked today.

If you're not going to do that, you're denying town information about the night.

[Jim Groovester]

I claimed what I would do on N1 on D1. I baked for NJW2000. I asked NQT what would happen if a hypothetical player named MicTragic with a global attract used his power on N1, and the end result of what NQT told me is that I befriended (75% chance) or infected (25% chance) MicTragic.

TricMagic dying means that the only person who could have confirmed my action is dead.

( posting then reading peoples posts, of course Tric, the one I tried to befriend would die 0.0)


Ah, Jim. That’s no good you know? Staying mostly silent and then hammering somebody who turns out to be town?

That’s not a good look.

How that I think about it, Fallacy did say to be wary of people who were against him but didn’t vote him, which fits you perfectly til l the last second.

Add that to being uncharacteristically silent, and I believe you to be mafia or a third party, both of which we can’t have around.

Why does everybody try to say I'm too quiet every single game?

I have not been silent. Also go reread Day 1 and tell me that I out of the blue hammer FoU without communicating my opinions about him several times well in advance of the hammer. FoU was low on my list for pretty much all of Day 1. I had doubts about him being scum but then he defended himself terribly so I hammered him, and I even explained why I was going to hammer before actually doing it.

Also, if you think I'm scum, vote me.

Also, wdym is that All I got, I thought that was a smart and reasonable accusation to make of Jim?

Why does this make me feel like your case against me is an artificial construction and not your genuine opinion?

I show more skill and now people want reasonable decisions 0.0

Man isn't people having EXPECTATIONS of you just the worst thing in the world

Let me add this.

Jim, according to the source generator, what you saw is the only way the last several words of that can happen. Infer everything accordingly.

You made me go look at the role generator. If I'm reading it right I don't think you are correct. Pure death millers are possible.

It's possible that FallacyofUrist's flip is inaccurate but I don't think it is although I don't have anything to base that off of other than feeeeeeel. It doesn't feeeeeeeeel like it's inaccurate.

PPE: and Max is being enigmatic. As usual.

I honestly want to explain fully, but it now involves information about Jim. If it was just claiming my own stuff I'd prefer to explain what happened so everyone's informed, but since Jim was so cagey about what he gained when he claimed it, I don't really want to mess it up for him.

I mean I don't really give that much of a shit so if you want to explain go ahead.

There's definite utility in what you gave me remaining unclaimed however but it might not ever be relevant. I'm not going to claim it for that reason but I'm not going to be horribly bothered if you do claim it.

You really think FoU wanted to live? There was zero chance of eliminating you, four or five people ready to flip me, and he thought I was insanely and obviously scummy.

His play sometimes looks stubborn and weak, but is he really THAT pigheaded?

 I am slightly reassured about KW for obvious reasons.

I think I can recall a few instances where town FoU did similar goofball plays that got him lynched but I can't remember the games and I'm too lazy to go find him.

FoU's Day 1 in this game is pretty in-character for him.

Right now, I think FoU and Hector's behaviour yesterday looks astonishingly like a scum gambit to clear Hector via FoU's fake flip. Hard-defending a townie gets one town-read, but the flip needs to occur for Hector to actually be trusted. This is why FoU shows no genuine desire to live, despite claiming I am insanely scummy. Naturally, he goes after a much harder player to eliminate D1, and a stronger player than myself, i.e. Toonyman. Also good for getting Toony out of the way rather than myself on D2. Which explains Hector's certainty that I'm scum, but strange reticence in presenting a case on me and voting for me.

Is that the theory you're going for?

I'd love to see you cast a vote if you're confident.

hector13 continuing to make a lot of sense

Even if FoU was secretly mafia I really don't see a hector13/FoU team being possible.



I'm going to go run off and do stuff but just so people know where I'm at today I think I push for either NJW2000 or a no lynch.

[hector13]

I think people can use context clues to have figured out you weren’t giving me an extra vote :p consequently, I’m denying the rest of the town nothing. Equally so, before your claim, I had no idea what you were going to claim having done, and consequently can’t vouch for it.

So yeah, I did not receive any messages about being vote blocked, or losing a vote.

Again, reticent to actually do what my scumread demands. Power heavy game, remember? FoU had a day action, don’t know who else has one or what it does. Put it this way, I’ll hammer you if you get to that point, okay?

I’m not defending KW. As things stand, analysis around the NK is useful for looking for scum. Toony didn’t perform the kill unless by convert he meant “make Tric flip town after I kill them”, Max has claimed giving Jim a prize, which Jim has backed up. These are the only two confirmed actions.

Consequently, me, you, Jim and KW could have performed the kill. We know I like you as scum, then it’s probably Jim edging it ahead of KW for the second spot, as things stand.

So yeah. KW is not being defended, but deferred. We might be at one scum, in which case I am convinced it’s you. If there’s a mally, eliminating you will still end the game before they become a problem. If there’s two scum, you’re one of them, and we have a (hopefully) unmolested night to find your partner.

PPE: Jim posted. I’ll read it and respond if necessary.

[notquitethere]

While the work environment had become a little strained after the recent loss of several prominent colleagues, no one was feeling so acrimonious to seriously point any fingers.

Vote Count
- Maximum Spin
- ToonyMan
- KnightWing64
- NJW2000
- Jim Groovester
- Hector13

The day will end 11th September 2022, 7AM BST, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. Hammer at 4.

[Maximum Spin]

Let me add this.

Jim, according to the source generator, what you saw is the only way the last several words of that can happen. Infer everything accordingly.

You made me go look at the role generator. If I'm reading it right I don't think you are correct. Pure death millers are possible.

Oh, you're right, I missed the "true roleflip but fake alignment" entry. I was only looking at the "completely fake roleflip" possibilities.

NJW2000: I was wrong before. Fallacy might have had an ability to flip as town which would not appear on roleflip.

[hector13]

While the work environment had become a little strained after the recent loss of several prominent colleagues, no one was feeling so acrimonious to seriously point any fingers.

I’ve been holding my pointing arm with my other arm ‘cause it’s so tired from all the pointing!

You know, just not willing to actually commit to it yet ‘cause NJW is scaring me.


*watches the ball on Jim’s side of the net be knocked gently back over to MaxSpin’s*

PPE: *Mad stares at the ball, then at me, then back at the ball*

Just one of you claim already, jeez.

[hector13]

Ah that would be funnier without the autocorrect.