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[NJW2000]

The lack of suspiscions is not good.

I'm kind of ok with an Egan flip as I feel it may solve the FoU slot in some manner. I would prefer to see FoU eliminated though.


Will do a readslist but later... I have a train journey that would be perfect for that.

In any case, deep breath.

2) Egan town FoU scum. - you are advocating for this

Show me where I did this. Just show me where. Read my posts. Then reread them. Then see if you can pick out the bit where I say this.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are dismissing out of hand option 4, and you have stated that your reason for doing so is that it is to aduacious to be true. I consider this reason completely unacceptable.

I am saying it is too unlikely to be reasonably accepted. READ MY POSTS. QUOTE THEM. Don't just ascribe random positions to me.

STOP MISREPRESENTING ME. I imagine several players don't particularly feel the need to see you survive the elim. If you continue to misrepresent what I say, I will be one of them. I don't care for players who post angry textwalls and fail to read the thread.

[Lenglon]

2) Egan town FoU scum. - you are advocating for this

Show me where I did this. Just show me where. Read my posts. Then reread them. Then see if you can pick out the bit where I say this.

Uh.... right here? Like, the entire post? and a vote to go with it? Hello?

For me? My action would show up as targeting Max in that scenario, assuming I wasn't redirected or some other shenaniganery.

My actions show up as mafiakill actions, but their apparent targeting is not modified from what it actually is.

Now this is WEIRD. Because the same does not seem to be true of Egan. See:

Shakerag - Please explain Miller Theory regarding D1 claims.

Oh I just realized I missed that.  I stick by the old (relative to this subforum) rules that you always claim miller ASAP.  To do otherwise is to invite doubt.

Ah in that case I'm like, omega miller. Inspects show me as mafia, surveys show my action as mafiakill, and tracking shows me as visiting whoever was killed.

So there are different Omega-millers in play?

Ho hum. I find that hard to believe. Also, have a look through Fal and EgAns early interactions. They’re just a tad weird. At the very least, I think FoU is lying here.

Anything to say for yourself, FallacyOfUrist?

I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are dismissing out of hand option 4, and you have stated that your reason for doing so is that it is to aduacious to be true. I consider this reason completely unacceptable.

I am saying it is too unlikely to be reasonably accepted. READ MY POSTS. QUOTE THEM. Don't just ascribe random positions to me.

STOP MISREPRESENTING ME. I imagine several players don't particularly feel the need to see you survive the elim. If you continue to misrepresent what I say, I will be one of them. I don't care for players who post angry textwalls and fail to read the thread.

Okay, so you are splitting the hair between "option 4 is too audacious to be true" and "option 4 is too unlikely to be reasonably accepted." somehow. To me those sound like the same thing. What is the relevant difference?

[Lenglon]

Also, NJW, it's a little odd that you decided to cut out such tiny segments of my post and removed their context. You also didn't address the conclusion at the bottom in any way. Why did you do that? It already was a fairly small post, and it's especially odd that you would remove the context from my statements while pitching a fit about how I wasn't representing yours properly.

[TricMagic]

TricMagic How confident are you still feeling about that Max vote?  Looking more bandwagon-y to me right now.  Pretending you're scum, he -does- seem like an easy target for a D1 lynch, no?

You put a FoS on NJW and Knightwing earlier?  Want to justify that now or change your mind?

So begins the end of inactivity. Even if we have 29 posts you mad lads and girls.

Max was mostly a pressure vote to get him to actually interact or get lynched. Hence why I didn't want to answer Lenglon's questions on it. The other two are inactivity blues making them look like they're lurking, and Lidku not looking good either.

[TricMagic]

As for scum-hunting strat... Wait and see, and vote Shakerag for earlier posts.

Town likes to hunt, scum likes to tag along.  Why are you being passive?  It kind of looks like you wanted to vote me because I was "fighting" with Egan, but you jumped ships onto Max because of Lenglon pretty quickly.  Looking like you don't have your own arguments for voting someone.

..As for this, RVS. You seemed as good to vote as any, and there was Fal's whole argument at the time. Wanted to see what would come of it, but then Max was Max. Good job Max.

[TricMagic]

Ok, time to gather me thoughts.

Knightwing64 - looks new, but maybe an idiot.  Leaning scum because of lack of engagement.

Okay, first of all 🖕I’m not a idiot.

Secondly, I have been posting at a consistent rate. I’m juggling numerous other games and various RL things so forgive me if I can’t post every 5 minutes like you can.

3: Just a afterword, but how are you going to call me sus for “lack of engagement” but you gloss over the fact NJW has barely posted at all? Suspect.

... Quantity isn't Quailty Knightwing. RL stuff is fine, but you haven't really added to the game.
... Granted, I think that was an argument I made in a past game..

[TricMagic]

Knightwing, I do agree that the question was a stupid one, but I asked it anyway because you had made a self-contradictory claim. Please explain at length what you think of Tric, their meta, their behavior, and if they are scummy or not.

Knightwing You have ignored this question, then deflected from answering it, and then ignored it once again. Answer the question.

 

I think Tric is town, they act scummy as town and they act like a town when scum. There is literally nothing else to say. I already told you what I thought about Tric and you keep repeating the same damn question over and over again.



What do you think about Egans meta?  Their behavior, and if they are scum or not. I legitimately don’t trust you anymore lmao

Fun.. As of right now at this post, I'm leaning towards an Egan/Fal team.

[TricMagic]

It is completely fallacious, no pun intended, to say that Fallacy's role is "more similar" to Egan's role than anything else. Fallacy is a miller in one way, Egan is a miller in every way. Every other possible way of being a miller would be equally similar to Egan's role as Fallacy's is.

If anything, Egan's role is more similar to mine than to Fallacy's or any other miller. Egan gives a "maximally mafia-like result" for all kinds of inspection, while I would give "no result". Is that an unreasonable coincidence?

Has anyone ever seen the “I appear to have done the mafia kill” role before? I think it’s a very nonstandard miller-like role

I'd like to add that Fallacy did not claim that he "appear[s] to have done the mafia kill". He claimed that his actions will appear to be kill actions, such as to a Follower. That's not really common, but then Followers aren't really common. I don't think it's in any way unreasonable as a kind of miller in a game where Followers exist (which they might here).

To note to any potential followers. I will not be performing a targeting action tonight. If town, you're welcome to check. If doctor or such, pick another target, mafia killing me won't actually change the result of my action. Same to any vigs. You can consider this a soft-claim.

Honestly, Followers would waste their action on me, since they can only confirm I did not do the kill nor target anyone. Unless I'm a ninja, but eh.

[TricMagic]

I'd definitely concur that we're not no-lynching, under any circumstances.

Knightwing is not a viable lynch target for me. Of currently voted people I'm not already voting for, I guess I'm most comfortable lynching... TricMagic, maybe Lenglon. I'd be open to suspecting Lidku over passive play, but I guess he should get some Noob Slack. Shakerag and Knightwing are town to me. Fallacy and NJW are both looking bad to me but seem mutually exclusive and I'm not sure which I should distrust. Then again, maybe that's the angle.

I... don't actually know why I'm voting Egan right now. I agree with what I SAID in the morning, but I don't know why I put a vote on it, I don't think it quite deserved that. I tend to be a little rash first thing in the morning. After the last several hours, he's definitely slid down my ranking of interest.

I do think Lenglon is being a dick. I don't know that I'd say that's lynchable in its own right outside some idea of a scum meta (like ToonyMan's), but I wouldn't call this normal town "aggression", and I do kind of want to get it out of the game.

I'm going to vote TricMagic for now, but I'm open to alternatives. Is anyone left not voting?

Maaaxxxxx. Remember what happens when people vote me out when I'm asleep? I'm always town when that happens, cause I don't have a partner defending me. Instead scum just pushes the vote.

Vote Count
------------------------
Knightwing64 - 3 - Lenglon*, Egan_BW*,
TricMagic - 2 - Shakerag*, Maximum Spin*,
FallacyofUrist - 1 - NJW2000*,
Lenglon - 1 - Knightwing64*,
NJW2000 - 1 - FallacyofUrist*,
Egan_BW - 0 -
Lidku - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Shakerag - 0 -
No One - 1 - TricMagic*,

Not Voting - 1 - Lidku,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on July 13, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (22 hours and 47 minutes remaining.)

...Egan, can I ask why you didn't ask Webadict if you could just place a single vote? That was a very dangerous game you were playing.

[TricMagic]

/... Fal's latest post are good I guess. Still, after reading everything..

- Egan_BW: Egan's mostly been participating. But also playing rather fast and loose with their doublevote. Crucially, this is because they don't want to be the hammering vote. That would effectively draw suspicions down on them hard, but being Omega-Miller is definitely something you should either claim from day start or not at all. (Reasoning being that webadict is punishing mechanical claims.)
- FallacyofUrist: Fallacy remains a Fallacy, can't read them as anything other than scum-lean.
- Knightwing64: Knightwing continues to have one key issue, not able to generate quality posts during the few times he does post. The lack of actionable information or arguments makes them look scummy, but not actually useful as a tell.
- Lenglon: The hyper-aggressiveness isn't good. But their actions, arguments, and focus tells me they're town. That and I do actually have some idea of her personality, I think.
- Lidku: ... I don't actually have much to say, Lidku hasn't really impacted me. That's not a good thing given the machine-gun like reading.
- Maximum Spin: Actually pushing now, town-lean.
- NJW2000: Notable in quality posts lately, if not in great numbers. Unlike Lidku, they did impact me.
- Shakerag: Drunk or not, Shakerag has mostly taken the lead on posts meant to guide new players, and in between that mostly made a number of arguments and votes. I'm fairly confident this is Town-Shakerag.
- TricMagic: In which I go to play Minecraft for a bit.


Putting everything together, my vote would be for either Egan or Lidku.

[NJW2000]

Also, NJW, it's a little odd that you decided to cut out such tiny segments of my post and removed their context. You also didn't address the conclusion at the bottom in any way. Why did you do that? It already was a fairly small post, and it's especially odd that you would remove the context from my statements while pitching a fit about how I wasn't representing yours properly.

You posted lies about what I said and didn’t quote me. I quoted those lies and explained that they were lies. If you think the context of a statement is more important than the actual truth about what was written in a thread, I don’t really think it’s possible for me to usefully communicate with you. You’re going to have to start responding to what was written, not what you vaguely imagine from a skimread, or this isn’t going to work.

I’m going to be patient, and respond to your question. The difference between saying that an event is improbable  compared to plausible alternatives and saying that scum would never be audacious enough to do it is that one is the first thing I just said and the other is the second.

[Lenglon]

*sigh*
NJW: Fix your lies. Now. I'm not going to put up with obvious bullshit, and you can just enjoy the vote for your troubles.

[Lenglon]

inb4 NJW just goes !ahha you just did exactly what i predicted! now lets quotemine the fuck out Lenglon and aggressively ignore anything that isn't easy to take out of context and make look like shit it isn't!

You've pulled this crap before NJW and you know it just makes me mad. Please don't try that bullshit again here. I know you do it as both alignments, and I know you think it's a way to scumhunt, but that it's far more useful to you when you're scum, and I'm telling you up front, right now, that I find it in incredibly poor taste, and am not willing to tolerate it.

[Lenglon]

so I just was collecting examples of what I was talking about from past games to show that this is a repeated and meta behavior pattern and realized that I somehow had NJW mixed up with doll. I don't know why on earth I made that mistake, but what it does mean is that I should be giving NJW more benefit of the doubt than I did. more to follow, but figured I needed to get this out there promptly when I realized my mistake. I'll be collecting the contentious posts (in full) and explaining why I find NJW's accusations disingenuous but doing so will take a few moments.

[NJW2000]

*sigh*
NJW: Fix your lies. Now. I'm not going to put up with obvious bullshit, and you can just enjoy the vote for your troubles.

I don't find your failure to properly read my posts alignment indicative. I just find it obstructs my play. Also, yeah, I'm not doll, but confusion is fair enough. They did tend to be a bit more... abrasive.


In any case, readslist:

(rather quick and scrappy, as it turns out, because I know who I have as scum already.)

Spoiler: reads (click to show/hide)

Egan_BW: Lean scum. Highly dubious claim, admittedly. Many dubious points such as "haha we're both scum" with a nervy response from FoU as their first interaction, lack of suspects... and this. If scum, probably with FoU.
FallacyofUrist: Scum. I don't really think there's going to be an omega-miller and a specialised-miller in the same game. If there are, Web has essentially created a bastard game instead of anything like a newbie game. I stand by my reasoning about the unlikelihood of a miller gambit + specialised miller guess on Egan's part, so I'm pretty sure FoU is scum. They also claimed miller quite late, which is not a townie thing to do.
Knightwing64: probably town. Tone reads as genuine (though mafia can get annoyed). D1
Lenglon: highly emotionally invested town. Obsessively pushing newer players and bringing in emotional/moral judgements, so helping noone, but probably louder D1 than they'd bother being as scum.
Lidku:Null. Not rocking the boat much. This post contains an "I'll vote if you insist", but Lidku may just be an unusually strong beginner, still liable to make that kind of error.
Maximum Spin: Weak scum lean. I can never really read Max well, but his defence of FoU over ER was a bit off.
Shakerag: Null. Not doing anything too aggressive, fair amount of activity. Not applying much vote pressure but asking questions. Strong and experienced enough that I'm very unlikely to catch them out D1, so can't call them town. Someone missing facetiousness is the subtlest tell I know, but if they're just autistic, it's not one I can use.
TricMagic: Lean town. Slightly ghostly presence but has made claims about what they'll be doing tonight, asked some reasonable questions.

In conclusion: Kill Fallacy Now.