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[delphonso]

I know artifacts cannot be truly destroyed (atom smashing disappears them, but given enough time, they can return.) Lost artifacts are also supposedly just on the ground somewhere in that region, though I haven't confirmed this myself, nor do I really want to.

I'm wondering if books are handled the same way? Is it possible to actually destroy a book?

[brewer bob]

I'm not sure, but this thread claims they can't be destroyed and the wiki says that "All original books, regardless of form or content, are considered artifacts - copies are not, however." So, I'd assume they work the same way as other artifacts? Can't confirm tho.

I'm wondering if books are handled the same way? Is it possible to actually destroy a book?

This begs the question: what are you up to? 

(I sure hope the gelder is not planning to sabotage the Philosopher-Bookkeeper's precious books in Smithbridges...)

[delphonso]

*sharpens drawbridge*

Well only one way to find out.

[Thisfox]

After an... incident... involving trolls, a magma shaft with external mechanisms, and a downstairs library, I can tell you that books don't appear to survive magma. That library didn't only burn, it filled to the roof with magma. I've searched the room, there aren't any books in it any more.

[delphonso]

The same can happen with artifacts, but supposedly the world keeps artifacts in tact and they can show up again somewhere. I'm thinking about how I want to test this, but will be sure to post the results. Unfortunately the timeframe for when the artifact re-enters the world is up in the air.

[King Zultan]

Looks like some science is about to take place and I shall PTW it.

[Quietust]

The way you determine whether books can be destroyed is to destroy them and then look in your Stocks screen.

If the book is still there but appears in dark gray, then it's "indestructible" and should reappear once you abandon+reclaim the fortress (or maybe retire+unretire). If it doesn't show up at all, then the book is gone forever.

[Fortressmaker]

I dont know.

[delphonso]

Okay, so here's the experiment so far:

I built a fortress named Crushdreams with pop-cap set at 35. The intention was for the dwarves to make two artifacts, while also making everything an adventurer would need to write two books and name two weapons.

Things got off track when Dakost was named queen and most work was focused on building her quarters.

Two artifacts were made: an artifact bracelet (The Standards of Blunting) and an artifact crossbow (Legendesteemed). Both were placed on pedestals in the fortress.
Two pig tail scrolls were assembled and placed on pedestals.
Two iron battle axes were made on Dakost's request, and placed on pedestals.

Fortress was retired and the adventurer Ushrir Smashpages was made.

He took the two scrolls and wrote two books: Research Tulip and My Friend Ivory
He took the two axes and named them Breaksable and Smashedhope

These four items were taken back to Crushdreams and placed on pedestals. Ushrir retired in the nearest dwarven hillock.

Crushdreams was unretired, and finding that the queen had abandoned them, the dwarves went mad. Smashedhope, Legendesteemed, and Research Tulip were all placed under a bridge and smashed. The artifacts screen oddly did not list the non-smashed artifacts, and only listed those three followed by the tag (destroyed/transformed).

The fortress was retired, and unretired - only the 3 non-destroyed artifacts were present (still on pedestals), the other three were no where to be seen.
The fortress was abandoned.

A new fortress was built to the south - randomly named Cudgelmasters.
No artifacts are listed on the C screen when you look at Crushdreams. The only artifacts in the artifact tab of that screen are the 3 non-crushed ones and two slabs related to the goblin leaders.

I sent a squad to seek out The Standards of Blunting who immediately returned with nothing in their mission report (left site and immediately came back). I sent the dwarves to explore the abandoned site of Crushdreams and they found the 3 non-destroyed artifacts.

Reclaiming Crushdreams after abandonment did not make the items reappear.

Legends mode states that the 3 artifacts have been destroyed.

Considering how the game treated the objects, I expect they are all in the same classification, that is, if artifacts can reappear in the world, so can books and named items. I'll play in this world for a while and see if I can get any of the items to reappear. Perhaps I can take these two goblin civs down a peg, or the next caravan might have more information on the items.

Also, Ushrir died in defense of the hillock at some point. He took 3 goblins down with him.

[brewer bob]

Crushdreams was unretired, and finding that the queen had abandoned them, the dwarves went mad. Smashedhope, Legendesteemed, and Research Tulip were all placed under a bridge and smashed. The artifacts screen oddly did not list the non-smashed artifacts, and only listed those three followed by the tag (destroyed/transformed).

I've seen the artifact list behave weirdly a couple times after unretiring a fort. Can't remember how I fixed it, but probably saving & reloading did the trick?

[delphonso]

It may have. On the reclaim where only the three artifacts were present, the L-Artifacts screen wasn't an option. I've seen this before. I think it takes a while on reclaim, or perhaps until a dwarf handles/sees one. Not sure why it didn't immediately pop, as the artifacts are literally on display next to the door. I'm going to continue Crushdreams with the goal of vanquishing the goblins and will report if the artifacts reappear, or if not, how long I play without seeing the artifacts.

[Quietust]

For what it's worth, I was referring to the Z-Stocks screen, though my remarks should also apply to the Artifacts screen.

[delphonso]

For what it's worth, I was referring to the Z-Stocks screen, though my remarks should also apply to the Artifacts screen.

Just because of how the artifacts ended up (weapon and amulet), I couldn't seee them in the stocks menu. Embarking with a 'good' bookkeeper wasn't enough, unfortunately.

I'm a couple years into Crushdreams now. Mostly just enjoying building a violent military fortress. The artifact and book.have not reappeared in any way, but also, Breaksable is now also missing, having been taken by goblins when they conquered Cudgelmasters (we raided the site several times and only got the book and bracelet back)

[delphonso]

A brief update:

Several retires, reclaims, and adventurer visits later, the artifacts are still nowhere to be seen. It's now year 12, 6 years after destruction and I've defeated all the goblins.

One of my adventurers found a lair on the same wprld tile as Crushdreams, which has replaced it on the 'c' map menu and makes Crushdreams a lot less interactive with other fortresses. This might be the end of the experiment, because without access to raids, etc, on the original location of artifact destruction, it may be hard or impossible to ever get these artifacts back (and certainly throws a wrench in the works.)

I'm not committed to bridging an island to the landmass and probably murdering all the elves and humans, but we'll see. I'll play on and report anything that happens. Otherwise, I might restart this experiment (or seed it into a succession fort) in the near future.

[delphonso]

Tried again on another world:

Started a fortress and made a squad. The squad ran off to a nearby abandoned temple and recovered 4 books. 2 codices and 2 scrolls. The codices were placed in a bin, then that bin was dumped to an atom smasher. Stocks screen listed the scrolls and the codices (still).

Abandoned fortress and started an adventurer. I ran over to the old fortress and found the two scrolls, but none of the codices. Retired adventurer, reclaimed fortress. I found only the two scrolls and the stocks screen no longer listed the codices (the 'L' artifact menu did not appear).

Still unsure about the whole indestructible artifact thing. I re-listened to Dwarf Fortress Talk 7, in which Toady talks about the fact that artifacts are permanent. This was before the artifacts/armies update, so I'm wondering if something changed. In a more recent Future of the Fortress (2021), Toady still referenced that they're permanent, but I'd like to know more about how to go about finding them again.