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[brewer bob]

Quoting from the news thread:

Putin Decorates Army Unit That Ukraine Blames for Bucha Deaths

Citing “mass heroism and valor” but making no mention of Russia’s war in Ukraine, the decree Putin signed Monday awarded the 64th Motorized Infantry Brigade the honorary title of Guards.

This is utterly disgusting. I fucking hate Putin. Miserable piece of fecal matter.

[EuchreJack]

It is basically an admission of guilt by Putin that he ordered the war crimes.

Alternatively, he needs to pin metals on able bodied soldiers so they will return to the front instead of disband.

[brewer bob]

It is basically an admission of guilt by Putin that he ordered the war crimes.

Yeah, it's like he's whining "But others commit atrocities too! Why shouldn't I?"

[Starver]

(Less "Reporter", where the quote was, than "Emotional". But not very "Emotional", maybe it should have been in the Small Questions thread, if that's what it's called, or similar. But it's just an idle consideration that popped back into my head, so it needed to be elsewhere from where it was almost posted.)

According to the Guardian, Russia has deployed ~20000 cannon fodder mercenaries in Donbas.

[...]

I've always[1] wondered what sort of guarantee a mercenary gets that his death is never in vain. Is he paid fully in advance, lest he cop it in battle and whatever paycheck/death-in-service payment (that he hopes will go to the recipients of his estate) be defaulted on or improperly skimmed off by some paymaster? If he is paid in advance, what guarantee is there that he doesn't pull his punches or do the military equivalent of carrying random-and-meaningless bits of paper around the office to only appear to be busy doing the assigned job? If it's half-and-half thing, either outcome is likely (even if only half as inconvenient to the wronged party, possibly both halves at once though!) and escrow accounts rely upon yet more trusted paymaster-types to properly activate as and when they ought to be (and only then!).

What I'm saying, here, is that I don't think Russia will necessarily have to pay for 20k mercenaries, at the end of the day. I'm not sure if those directly affected will have much to say about it, but it might still have repurcussions unless they are even more ruthless in dealing with any third-party complainants.

[1] Well, certainly since well before the Austin Powers films highlighted the homelife of the average mooks and goons.

[nenjin]

The thing about mercenary work is, even when you get paid, you can just dip out at any time. In the modern age of mercenary corporations, I'm sure there's negotiations to be had for fulfillment of the contract. But even so, you're dealing with non-state actors whose only motivation is pay. When the risk >>> pay, they'll dip.

[Nirur Torir]

I can only wonder at how much USD it costs to buy off 20,000 rifle mercs sent into a high casualty war, with inadequate support, who are being paid in rubles.

[heydude6]

To answer your question, there are no guarantees to the mercenaries, and the mercenaries know that.

Mercenaries were famously known to be unreliable as a result of that. Frequently changing sides when the other team offered a better bribe, holding onto captured territory and essentially ransoming it to the guys who paid them to capture it in the first place, and sometimes refusing to show up for battles entirely.

The only time you could trust a mercenary was when they vastly outclassed the enemy they were paid to fight, like in Syria.

From what I’ve heard, calling the Wagner group mercenaries is a bit of a misnomer. They’re more like Putin’s private army rather than an army who goes to the highest bidder. Kinda like Hitler’s brown army.

Still, I feel like this war might cause them question this devotion. Especially if they know anything about what’s actually going on.

[nenjin]

Yeah. Mercs tend to not abide by meat-grinder contracts for very long. The fact they're not being given any armor or heavy weapons support implies they'll be used to hold territory, or perhaps augment motorized forces in the Russian army.

If Putin is planning to just send 20k mercs at Donbass with rifles he.....may not get what he bargained for.

[brewer bob]

I understood those mercenaries are recruited by the Wagner Group from Syria and Libya. Earlier in the war,  Syrian mercenaries were offered up to $7000, which is probably a huge incentive considering how messed up the economy in Syria is now. Pretty sure they'll end up as cannon fodder.

(Another article said that a Russian Wagner fighter had been paid $2100 for a months work.)

[EuchreJack]

The lack of heavy equipment implies they're paid up front and thrown into the battlefield with minimal equipment.
Their motivation to do their job is twofold:
1) The Russians are providing their only way home.
2) The Russians can utterly destroy them with their tanks.  Hence no armor or heavy weapons support.

Honestly, they almost sound like slave soldiers.  I wonder about the recruitment tactics. 
If some guy shows up with 10 Syrians, I bet the Wagner group would pay them $70,000 no questions asked.

The real concern is that if Russia is using mercenaries, Ukraine needs to use mercenaries or risk running out of manpower.
Considering many European Nations still use some form of mandatory conscription, it shouldn't be hard for Ukraine to find soldiers for cash.

[Il Palazzo]

I don't think Ukraine is at risk of running out of manpower any time soon. It's a Russian problem. Ukraine has mobilised, Russia still hasn't (since it stubbornly insists it ain't fighting a war).
Also, light infantry has its uses. Just because the mercs are not serving in armoured units doesn't mean they're some useless cannon fodder.

[EuchreJack]

Well, not useless cannon fodder, no.
Useful cannon fodder seem to be what one of the articles was saying.

[Starver]

A wartime'Special Operation'-time counterpart to the "Useful Idiots" they somehow got to do their work in unspecial-nonoperation times like around the periods of western elections/etc?

[Strongpoint]

If those mercs are low-qualified idiots with minimal training... really not much

I don't think Ukraine is at risk of running out of manpower any time soon. It's a Russian problem. Ukraine has mobilised, Russia still hasn't (since it stubbornly insists it ain't fighting a war).
Also, light infantry has its uses. Just because the mercs are not serving in armoured units doesn't mean they're some useless cannon fodder.

Currently, recruitment offices send volunteers with no prior military experience home with "we'll call you later if you'll be needed now go and contribute to the economy".

Ukraine has also canceled the spring draft, seeing no need for a bunch of untrained youngsters.

If manpower would be a problem, we would see a quite different picture. 

[heydude6]

Just wanna change the subject a bit, but as someone who doesn't watch much mainstream news, I gotta ask: Are people still talking about this?

When you're in a bubble like this one it's easy to believe everyone feels the same way as you do, but I turned on the news today, saw that Ukraine wasn't mentioned at all while Russia is attempting it's biggest and most important battle yet, and I'm genuinely terrified that the West is going to give this story the 2014 Crimea treatment!

Please tell me this isn't the case...