Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Strongpoint]

Come on guys, time to read your Pushkin… and Dostoevsky…

Read Pushkin you say? Well, what he wrote about the Russian Empire still applies

With freedom's seed the desert sowing,
I walked before the morning star;
From pure and guiltless fingers throwing—
Where slavish plows had left a scar—
The fecund seed, the procreator;
Oh vain and sad disseminator,
I learned then what lost labors are....

Graze if you will, you peaceful nations,
Who never rouse at honor's horn!
Should flocks heed freedom's invocations?
Their part is to be slain or shorn,
Their dower the yoke their sires have worn
Through snug and sheepish generations.

Pushkin was a genius, who, being raised in Western (mostly French) culture tried to transfer it to Russia by fusing it with local folklore and developing the Russian language in the process. He was one of the many who tried changing Russia... and failed

[MaxTheFox]

He was based.

[Strongpoint]

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338

Just read this Twitter thread about fine Russian journalism that would make Julius Streicher proud.

[brewer bob]

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338

Just read this Twitter thread about fine Russian journalism that would make Julius Streicher proud.

That's some fucked up shit. Anyone not seeing that article as sick and disgusting is a monster.

[Ganondworf]

May I inject a personal note here?

I want to thank everyone here for all the different points of view, all the news from different contries. I first registered on the forum in 2013, and wrote a total of 4 posts, because in most cases someone else gave already all the infos i needed, or because i did not know how to write in English, as I'm from Germany and did not trust my language skills.

However, when the war started, I first came here to see what you guys would write about it. Because I know that people here are from around the world, maybe even from Ukraine or Russia, and are chill. I hoped to get different perspectives than just our German news, and I was not disappointed. It's not that I mistrust our media, but I find their pov often limited. So thank you all for providing so many informations, news, points of view.

And now i want to rant a little bit 

In response to the images from the war crimes in Butcha and other sites around Kyiv, the biggest opponent of a gas import ban, Germany, is changing it's stance.
According to the German minister of Defense, Christine Lambrecht, with mass murders of innocent civilians are coming to light, the EU has to reconsider an import ban for Russian gas.

That is actually no change in stance, it's more like a personal opinion. There was no coordinated attempt in communication when Ms. Lambrecht agve that opinion.

I voted for our current government, because I hoped they had a better moral integrity than the previous government. Some ministers actually do, but FOR F***s SAKE why wont they do more now? I am so appalled by this war! I can not remember when I last saw any conflict where it was so clear cut which side was "the bad guys". Maybe I'm missing conflicts in Africa or Asia, please forgive that distance to conflict probably does bias me.

But here? Russia is the aggressor, FFS! It is well documented! It's is doing the same shit about moving borders that governments all over the world did in the centuries before, but I had hoped after the wars of the 20th century the world would be a little bit better!
And what does our "moral integrity" government do? It says "... but mah economy!" And almost nothing else! People here complain about their gasoline prices and do some protesting by doing cavalcades against gasoline prices. I know that a boycott of russian gas would be terrible for poor people, but the government could provide. It just doesn't. It rather talks about stuff like gasoline vouchers.

I am so disgusted by my government and my fellow countrymen. I can literally not find the words how disgusted I am.

Please excuse the rant. I had to get it off. Thank you all for your continued discussion and bits of news.

[hector13]

Indeed. Saying Russia never accomplished anything useful by itself is flat out a lie. I want the government to burn and for Putin to be slowly electrocuted to death (I'd torture him with a taser if it was up to me) but I like the country's history and culture.

Can I ask which part of Russian history do you like? Chechen Wars? Invasion in Afghanistan? The subjugation of Hungary and Czechoslovakia? Conquest of Europe in WW2 which Russia started together with Hitler? (Luckily Hitler, in his hubris, chose to betray Russian allies instead of dividing the world) Terror of 1930s? Bloodbath of  the 1917 revolution? WW1 that wouldn't happen without Russian warmongering. Numerous genocides of 19th century? So called Serfdom (actually, form of slavery)? What exactly makes you proud?

Find a country with a couple of centuries behind them that doesn’t have a similar history, man.

[wierd]

Europe is very dependent on Russian fuel for its energy needs.

No energy, no economy.


That is why they are not moving strongly in any way, other than economic sanctions.

[Strongpoint]

Indeed. Saying Russia never accomplished anything useful by itself is flat out a lie. I want the government to burn and for Putin to be slowly electrocuted to death (I'd torture him with a taser if it was up to me) but I like the country's history and culture.

Can I ask which part of Russian history do you like? Chechen Wars? Invasion in Afghanistan? The subjugation of Hungary and Czechoslovakia? Conquest of Europe in WW2 which Russia started together with Hitler? (Luckily Hitler, in his hubris, chose to betray Russian allies instead of dividing the world) Terror of 1930s? Bloodbath of  the 1917 revolution? WW1 that wouldn't happen without Russian warmongering. Numerous genocides of 19th century? So called Serfdom (actually, form of slavery)? What exactly makes you proud?

Find a country with a couple of centuries behind them that doesn’t have a similar history, man.

All countries have shameful chapters but they have good chapters, too. Russia had nothing good. It is a unique empire that didn't even manage to achieve decent standards of living for their own people, and always was behind the curve in development of freedoms and human rights

Europe is very dependent on Russian fuel for its energy needs.

No energy, no economy.


That is why they are not moving strongly in any way, other than economic sanctions.

Europe can pretend that... there is... I don't know... A WAR. After all, it is an opportunity to use emergency to develop both energy saving opportunities and new sources of energy, both of which are needed for fighting climate change anyway.

[martinuzz]

Europe is very dependent on Russian fuel for its energy needs.

No energy, no economy.

I think this is highly overrated.
Cutting off Russian gas and oil would hurt, but would not shut down our economies.
We still have gas reserves to last us to next winter. Norway has more oil than it has fjords.
 
It's as Ganondworf (welcome to the party!) says:

I know that a boycott of russian gas would be terrible for poor people, but the government could provide. It just doesn't.

[Lord Shonus]

Russian energy is a nice to have thing for Europe, and the importance has been dwindling for years. With a concerted push, the value of Russian energy could drop to zero and head further down within 5-10 years. That's not that long for a government bailout program to run.

[MaxTheFox]

Indeed. Saying Russia never accomplished anything useful by itself is flat out a lie. I want the government to burn and for Putin to be slowly electrocuted to death (I'd torture him with a taser if it was up to me) but I like the country's history and culture.

Can I ask which part of Russian history do you like? Chechen Wars? Invasion in Afghanistan? The subjugation of Hungary and Czechoslovakia? Conquest of Europe in WW2 which Russia started together with Hitler? (Luckily Hitler, in his hubris, chose to betray Russian allies instead of dividing the world) Terror of 1930s? Bloodbath of  the 1917 revolution? WW1 that wouldn't happen without Russian warmongering. Numerous genocides of 19th century? So called Serfdom (actually, form of slavery)? What exactly makes you proud?

Find a country with a couple of centuries behind them that doesn’t have a similar history, man.

All countries have shameful chapters but they have good chapters, too. Russia had nothing good. It is a unique empire that didn't even manage to achieve decent standards of living for their own people, and always was behind the curve in development of freedoms and human rights

I disagree. Sure it remained quite authoritarian throughout the 19th century but it wasn't the total hellhole you're making it out to be. Culturally, the 19th-early 20th century was a golden age with many works being produced that are still read and beloved today. And there were reformist tsars! They didn't truly succeed, but mostly because of inertia from centuries of serfdom. And even then, the late 19th century showed promise until the Narodniks killed Alexander II and his successor became a reactionary because of it. And then it was showing promise again but then WW1 ruined the country.

I honestly think you are biased.

[Svarte Troner]

I am trying to keep myself from dropping my hot takes all over this thread but not all Russian history is bad, obviously. As much as I hate the United States government and all the atrocities perpetrated around the world by them for hundreds of years, not everything is bad about American culture and history, the bodycount and suffering caused can't be far off from the Russian empire either. I understand the anger especially from the Ukrainian posters, I'm angry at the Russian government too. But I don't think Russians (their culture and history at least) are exceptionally bad in the grand scheme of things. The logic of all states is inherently at least somewhat imperialistic: "dominate or be dominated." Competition between states puts pressure on each of them to maximize their power to avoid subordination to others. States that have little power will be under severe pressure to align themselves with more muscular states that have major military and economic forces at their disposal. They are only constrained in their conduct on the world stage by fear of what other states can do to them. Clearly the Russian government flagrantly overestimated what they could get away with here, the international community has been letting them do basically whatever they want with little more than a slap on the wrist until now though.

Others have said the same, but you can look at the history of any country and find heaps of corpses and rivers of blood.

[LordBaal]

They are not Mordor you know, not everyone in there is an evil hellspawn bent on doing harm. Its a regular people filled country like anyonther, that happens to have terrible leadership (as is the current trend evrerywhere) and most poeple arent guilty of anything there.

[Strongpoint]

They are not Mordor you know. Its a regular people filled country like anyonther, that happens to have terrible leadership (as is the current trend evrerywhere) and most poeple arent guilty of anything there.

*Double facepalm*

[LordBaal]

How so? Are you saying every Russian is evil or that Mordor had actual nice habitants?