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Author Topic: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)  (Read 26064 times)

Glass

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #420 on: February 11, 2022, 04:26:18 pm »

Ork stuff is not really technologically advanced, it is in fact not technology at all, just random bits of stuff held together with duct tape and literal belief. Stealing it would come with a risk of infecting our worlds with Ork spores, too.
The first part isn't a 100% thing, and different authors have had it anywhere from "it's just junk duct-taped together" to "it's legit technology, it's just that it works much better when the ork field thing can apply to it, but humans can technically make use of it". It's ultimately up to TW, and I think they've mentioned a distaste for the extremities of "magic ork tech" stuff.
The latter issue - spore infection - is probably the larger worry.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

VoidSlayer

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #421 on: February 11, 2022, 04:32:12 pm »

Sorry I meant raw materials, we have a lot more processing ability than raw income and the snailboys seem like they will make a lot of factories efficiently as well.  I guess we could raid an imperial world then?

Madman198237

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #422 on: February 11, 2022, 04:46:30 pm »

I desperately want to avoid raiding the Imperium because the potential responses if they learn that Space Marines are raiding Imperial worlds are....terrifying? Granted it might take them a literal century or three to send anybody to fight us but it'd basically land us in an ever-escalating cycle of, at best, us beating the attack force so they send a bigger one next century so we defeat the bigger one so they send an even larger one ... etc. repeat ad nauseam until finally we die.

We might have to do but it'd be better to delve into some ruins and find some things that might be sellable, then send one of our ships under the guise of a Totally Normal Not Rogue Ship Owned By The Mechanicus or something to sell ancient human secrets or a Rogue Trader to sell artifacts or things like that.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #423 on: February 11, 2022, 05:07:27 pm »

Any raiding of Imperial Worlds would require a disguise of some sort.

We also have to determine whether or not our Doctrine allows us to raid Imperial Worlds.
If we see the Imperium as bad but the Emperor as our Guiding Light, then to raid the worlds poorly administered by the Imperium runs counter to service to the Emperor.  We'd just be helping the Imperium hurt the humans we should be protecting.

What is our end game? We were breed to die in the Emperor's Name.  We're clearly not doing that.  So what ARE we doing?

Hm, perhaps if we knew of worlds that the Orks were raiding, we could protect those worlds and request a Tithe?  Or liberate worlds that are in dispute between Ork and Human?  A bit of helping Mankind and Ourselves?

Madman198237

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #424 on: February 11, 2022, 05:22:53 pm »

Our endgame is obviously to build an empire in which humanity isn't suffering absurdly for no reason, in which technology can advance, and in which things will GET BETTER instead of worse.

As for dying for the Emperor, we literally will be dying for the Emperor in that we will be preserving his original desires for mankind whenever we fight in the name of our new mini-Imperium.

Chaos corruption is of course COMPLETELY antithetical to all points of our goals so you may exit, stage bolter-shell-to-the-face, posthaste.
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We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Tube Wizard

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #425 on: February 11, 2022, 05:31:37 pm »

Ork stuff is not really technologically advanced, it is in fact not technology at all, just random bits of stuff held together with duct tape and literal belief. Stealing it would come with a risk of infecting our worlds with Ork spores, too.
(In all fairness, Ork tellyportas are head-and-shoulders above what every other major race can muster in that department, Imperial DAoT relics and Dark Eldar hypertech excepted. Ork technology is ramshackle and primitive to the extent it's more on par with an amped-up tweaker disassembling washing machines and attempting to put them back together than it is equivalent to the Adeptus Mechanicus, but it works, most of the time, sometimes, and their subconscious Waaaaaagh-field makes it work well. Orkish vessels tend to be short-ranged, slow, and flimsy relative to the Imperium's fleet, but they have a surprisingly high firepower within that range and more importantly, are cheap. Orkish ships are cheaper upfront, cost a fraction of their Imperium-equivalent tonnage to maintain, and if left to gather into a proper WAAAAAAAGH, can amass frightening numbers. There's a reason the Tyranids have decided not to threaten your worlds until the Orkz are dealt with. Spore infection is a very real possibility, and is hell to get rid of once established but a latent Feral Ork population can also make for a more combat-hardened population, so it's something of a tradeoff. Of course, as an Astartes, you would prefer the Orkz be doused in promethium and set alight but they won't make it easy.)

The first part isn't a 100% thing, and different authors have had it anywhere from "it's just junk duct-taped together" to "it's legit technology, it's just that it works much better when the ork field thing can apply to it, but humans can technically make use of it". It's ultimately up to TW, and I think they've mentioned a distaste for the extremities of "magic ork tech" stuff.
The latter issue - spore infection - is probably the larger worry.

(I lean more toward the latter myself but in a WAAAAAAAGH of sufficient momentum and magnitude, there's nothing to prevent an overexcited Ork from mistaking a rock for a grenade, throwing it into a crowd, and causing it to explode a few seconds later. It's not something Orkz can consciously do because they aren't aware of it, to them it's just how the WAAAAAAAGH is. To the Ork, that rock must've always been a grenade, and for the unfortunates caught in the blast-radius, there's enough shouting musclebound, green soccer/football-hooligans in the proxomity to see the rock in the air and assume it's a grenade, to devastating effect. Orkz casually warping reality on a large scale, outside of Weirdboyz channeling Gork and/or Mork and/or Gorkamorka, is what I disagree with, personally. I feel like it cheapens Orkz to a degree.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 05:33:29 pm by Tube Wizard »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #426 on: February 11, 2022, 06:10:27 pm »

I'd say that our ideals are ultimately to change or overwrite the imperium to be more in line with (our idea of) what the emperor wants. But we don't expect that to be easy or simple, so pursue that in the form of carving out our own pocket empire and following the prophesy of our prognosticators.

It's inevitable that the imperium will notice us eventually, but it's still important that we delay that until we are strong. Because while we will keep getting progressively stronger wave after wave of imperials for millinea until the imperium falls for good, perhaps each time we can be stronger, too.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #427 on: February 11, 2022, 06:28:16 pm »

Our endgame is obviously to build an empire in which humanity isn't suffering absurdly for no reason, in which technology can advance, and in which things will GET BETTER instead of worse.

As for dying for the Emperor, we literally will be dying for the Emperor in that we will be preserving his original desires for mankind whenever we fight in the name of our new mini-Imperium.

Well spoken Astartes!

Where do you stand on the question of avoiding human suffering versus carving out our new mini-Imperium?
To raid or not to raid?

Glass

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #428 on: February 11, 2022, 06:37:09 pm »

Raiding Imperial worlds will get us noticed and subsequently killed, and as a result attempting it is likely to both cause human suffering and cripple our ability to create our own mini-Imperium.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Egan_BW

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #429 on: February 11, 2022, 06:44:04 pm »

It will be worth doing once they're trying to kill us anyways, though.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #430 on: February 12, 2022, 01:39:12 am »

Raiding Imperial worlds will get us noticed and subsequently killed, and as a result attempting it is likely to both cause human suffering and cripple our ability to create our own mini-Imperium.
Hm, then it would be wise to incorporate this into our Doctrine.
"Thou shall not raid thy misguided Imperium's worlds, as this hurts our fellow humans needlessly.  Only those worlds abandoned and lost to the Imperium such as ourselves shall be brought in our New Imperium's fold."
Or something like that.  Thoughts Brothers?

Egan_BW

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #431 on: February 12, 2022, 01:42:19 am »

Best not make a rule of it. Raids will be very helpful when we get into a proper knife fight with the imperium, and could potentially be useful if we can get away with them.

There is, after all, nothing wrong with the infliction of misery for the purposes of cleansing corruption. That's practically our entire purpose.
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Tube Wizard

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #432 on: February 12, 2022, 02:36:19 am »

Leave in orbit [strike cruiser 1] Emperor's Spleen and Warmonger, carrying 9th company, 2 units of auxiliaries, the prognosticator, and a techmarine or two.

Leave on the surface whoever among the crew and auxiliaries will volunteer to live among and rule the Zahgun.

Instruct the prognosticator and 9th company captain to help our mortal volunteers with learning the language and whatever else they need help with.
Spoiler: Lengthy Plan, Sorry (click to show/hide)

OK that got ridiculously long, but I want this thing to run on autopilot for awhile so that we don't need to be constantly revisiting them. The tithes they'll send will be, if I understand correctly, initially very small, but any bit helps at the moment.

You spend the better part of a Terran day contemplating the proper course of action, sequestered deep within your quarters, and come to the conclusion that the Zo, the Za-... the Xenos, shouldn't be left alone. If they are to be assimilated, if they are to be yours to control, they must likewise be yours to defend, and to that end, you inform the fleet, Chapter, crew, and auxiliaries all of your intentions. The results are mixed. When you leave and walk through the Battle Barge, the fire in the eyes of the Astartes, awed at their new Chapter Master, has flickered into doubt, and you know that you have overestimated their willingness to know the alien, so that mankind might subdue it and the alien thus serve mankind in life, rather than in death. You expected a handful, even most, but every one save for Audenach seems to feel the same, burning revulsion to them and their reverence toward your position dampened by proximity. This is a worrying development. Word will doubtlessly spread through the Chapter and may lead to a loss of trust in you, unless the fires are stoked and kept alive, until you can find fuel to make them blaze once again. 9th company has no outward complaints, nor does the Prognosticator or the second that you allowed him the choice, to relieve him of his duties from time to time, nor do the techmarines who have been tasked to, worse than to salvage but to uplift the Xenos, but you know that within their souls they stew with hate. A burning malice and loathing for the alien and for its works, but for now, their oathbound duty to the Chapter and by extension, to you, is far stronger. In time, you hope you can bring them around to your way of thinking.

The crew of over four-hundred thousand souls who've spent years, if not decades at a time confined almost entirely within the cramped, lightless and labyrinthine hulls of your assorted vessels, prove more receptive to the good news. They muster a full total of 800 souls, genuinely willing and able to set foot on alien soil and reshaping their savage society. You can't help subconsciously doing the math. Of the roughly 410,100 men, women, and children scattered across six ships, 800 were willing, 0.0019% of your total crew were willing to set foot on the Xenos' rock. You let them go and are thankful that many agreed. You don't expect them to martyr themselves attempting to purge the Xenos by hand but you wouldn't be surprised if they were to make the attempt. By the Emperor, looking at the Xenos from a personal perspective, completely divorced from their utility, you can't blame them. The shelled, glistening horrors bring your twin hearts to spasm in revulsion. Among the auxiliaries you're expecting no better reception and... are promptly surprised by the quarter-of-a-million hardened souls throwing themselves at the feet of any Astartes they can see and scraping and begging at the tops of their lungs to garrison the planet. They scrape and cry, grown warriors who've seen sights that would've crippled lesser men in fear and fought them, all, reduced to wailing, clinging to your power armoured boots, all discipline lost, desperately pleading for the chance to be left here, on this sweltering hellhole, anywhere but Antwir.

This is utterly universal among them. You attempt to make them see reason, to know the true perfidy of the Xenos abominations, but they are completely unmoved. You try to tell them of their malice, of their inhumanity, they tell you of wild-eyed cannibals and needle-tongued eye-gougers waiting to spring out of the burst-weed bushes. You make a last, desperate resort, and repeat their responsibilities, their duties to steward and guide forth a kindred utterly unknown to man, and they reassure you, tears in their eyes, voices cracking from overexertion, screaming in the hoarse lunacy of a cornered ape, that they are far lesser, far gentler than the ordeal of boiling drinking water back on the nightmare that is Death World #14/2. Eventually, you stop using your servo-arms to peel them off of you and on realizing that there's no other way to dissuade them or prevent them from knifing each other's backs and tearing each other's throats out over a perceived limited amount of places, you make a drastic decision, and hold a raffle. It is completely impartial, completely orderly, and there is no cheating or refusal to participate. All auxiliaries in the 1st Fleet take a raffle ticket and all draw them, under the sight of the Astartes' boltguns, and file into two separate groups, one despondent as though the souls were drained from their once-human husks, one in the same, rapturous state of joy as a pilgrim being told they were en-route to Terra, to there gaze on the Golden Throne.

By the end of the entire ordeal, you're starting to wonder whether or not it's worth it to keep a permanent human population on Death World #14/2- Antwir, but then you remember how effective they're projected to be in combat and rebuke the atrophied remains of your empathetic conscience. Soon enough, the humans, 50,800 of them, from various places and a very narrow range of backgrounds, are disembarked onto the surface, along with the two Prognosticators. The rest of the Astartes of 9th company are firmly rooted in The Emperor's Spleen and refuse to budge from that place. (With one, quietly foot-tapping exception.) Alongside it are The Warmonger and The Gilded Rider, both instructed to manage the Xenos World's logistical affairs and if need be, its defense. The remainder of the fleet propels itself to the edge of the system, not looking back, and shifts into the Warp. You contemplate all that has come to pass over these last two months, and shake your head, because there is nothing else you could've done to safeguard what space the Chapter holds. Deep inside of yourself, you sit at your workbench, buried subconscious stirring, staring down at the Xenos' "shellcracker" pattern rifle bullet, and dare not think it aloud. Do these aliens deserve a planet to call their own, too?

All that's left is to wait...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 06:30:22 pm by Tube Wizard »
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Tube Wizard

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #433 on: February 12, 2022, 03:05:08 am »

Quote from: 3rd Company Chaplain inquiry to Master of Sanctity
Your Eminence, I inquire as to how you wish me to proceed with instruction of our Brothers in my Company.  This newness has inspired...questions.  I dare not give answers without first humbly seeking your guidance.
Which of these principles should or should not have sway in the coming years:
1) Ingenuity
2) Perfection
3) Valor
4) Resilience
How should our chapter view Psychers:
Scorned, Reviled, Tolerated, Accepted, Encouraged, or Revered? Or some other more appropriate word(s)?
I humbly leave it to you whether our Esteemed Chapter Master's valuable time would be worth consulting on these issues.  I also heard a rumor that our Chapter may be seeking to further instruction of gifted citizens on our worlds.  I am unsure of the accuracy of these rumors, hence I am bringing them to your attention.  I am unsure what role the Chapter's Chaplains may play in this task, if the Chapter seeks to pursue this path.  We do aid our Brothers in discipline and teaching.
Your Humble Servant,
EuchreJack

As the Battle Barge drifts through the numberless terrors of the Warp, ensconced in the ever-necessary, ever-essential gellar field, the Master of Sanctity, foremost fanatic of the faith, trained, tested, yet to be tried in sniffing out the taint of Heresy, sits silently in his personal prayer nook. He sits, more still than a graven statue, looking down at the letter between his hands. He rubs his thumb into his non-weary eyes, scraping the corners of any trace of possible contaminant which could possibly be deceiving his senses, and stares down at the letter, once more. His eyes, harder than adamantine, slowly, surely, drift once more over the parchment with a smouldering heat fiercer than that of an overcharged plasma pistol. Finally, he exhales, having confirmed that his mind is in fact in full-functioning, and that this parchment below him, from the chaplain he personally vouched for and selected among many others, does in fact say what he thought it said and could not at first bring himself to believe. The Master of Sanctity rises to his feet and trudges through the corridors with unhurried, unflinching purpose, until he reaches the quarters of the Chapter Master, opens the door using his emergency personal code, and stops a frustrated Talnior dead in his tracks by flashing the letter. He watches his gene-brother's eyes dart down to see the sender, so soon after his investigation, and sink, perturbed.

A short, to-the-point discussion of that which should not be discussed commences.

Get the High Prognosticator Involved
Talk to the 3rd Company Chaplain Yourselves
...Let It Slide, Send Him A Letter of Response
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 03:07:03 am by Tube Wizard »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Renegade Space Marine Simulator (40k)
« Reply #434 on: February 12, 2022, 03:18:53 am »

These matters are not to be taken lightly. Get the High Prognosticator Involved.
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