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[A_Curious_Cat]

And what does “Chains of The Contract get Us in return?…

I think you're confusing me and Spin. I literally just raised the same concern:

I honestly think that, of all the "exchange for power" ideas currently on record, Chains of the Contract is the best. Unlike the others, it actually demands service of the mortals for our power, ie, something genuinely useful.

I thought that was intended to be used in the elemental planes, to buy their loyalty. We don't need to buy the loyalty of our followers on the mortal plane, as far as I understand.

Unless you're asking what it gets us in return on the elemental planes, in which case... loyalty. Which we need to acquire on the elemental planes in order to get their bonuses. This is how the game works. Mortal plane: already loyal, poorly equipped. Elemental planes: not loyal, provide equipment.

Either way, I'm not voting for Chains. Or Reimbursement. I've shifted over to preferring commerce.

Fair enough, I think I did mix you up…

I’m mainly trying to set us up as the middleman in a trade network involving Ourselves, the planes, and the mortal realm.

Btw, how do the changes I made look?

[NUKE9.13]

I honestly think that, of all the "exchange for power" ideas currently on record, Chains of the Contract is the best. Unlike the others, it actually demands service of the mortals for our power, ie, something genuinely useful.

I thought that was intended to be used in the elemental planes, to buy their loyalty. We don't need to buy the loyalty of our followers on the mortal plane, as far as I understand.

Well yeah, but we also don't need sacrifices from our followers on the mortal plane, either. We can just give them power.

No, see, the tribute would be used to bribe folks on the elemental planes.

Design proposal 5: Extremely Ordinary Locomotion (locomotio perquam ordinaria)
This spell moves things in an extremely ordinary and boring way that definitely isn't cool or interesting at all. Things were just there, and then they were somewhere else. Magically.

Is it teleportation? Or propulsion?

Neither. It's Extremely Ordinary Locomotion. The things have simply moved. There is no answer to how they moved. It just happened.

Mate. Don't do this. Antagonising the GM because you don't like the way they responded to you is A) not going to work, and B) childish. Work with the system. I'm positive that we could design a spell that propels something by magic. I'm equally positive we could design some form of teleportation that doesn't provide a shortcut to destroying the fabric of reality (it doesn't do so, but it implies that it could be modified to do so).

E:

I’m mainly trying to set us up as the middleman in a trade network involving Ourselves, the planes, and the mortal realm.

I know what you're going for. I've explained why I think you're going about it in a bad way. I think the Planar Trade Network is a better way of achieving such a goal- voluntary trade is not a handicap, and it encourages competition for our favour on the elemental planes.

Btw, how do the changes I made look?

The only changes I can spot past this post

Okay, yeah, that's somewhat better-

are you changing "blessings" to magic. Which is just semantics. It doesn't change anything mechanical.

[Man of Paper]

[all written pre-nukepost]Maximum Spin, you seem to have ignored the fact that your “fluff” included the ability to pass objects through other objects. This is in fact something that could have a mechanical effect in a game about high fantasy wizard wars. This is also a lot more difficult than just moving an object.

I give so that you might give and ear of god are both hard to gauge, since there’s nothing for me to really go off of in a way that would actually impact the game. They’re just different flavor for how your people use magic. I give so that you might give does seem to boil down to trading with extra steps which *could* net influence, but it also feels like it’s actively trying to nerf your forces, which I don’t think I’m gonna let happen on the first turn.  You can make mistakes that snowball into demise later just like every other arms race.

Extremely Ordinary Locomotion is clearly not a serious submission and I would prefer we not go down some petty route where being told something that isn’t to your liking leads to shitposting. There’s a time and place for it, and it’s not when a game is trying to get off the ground floor. Give it a few turns, or at least get through the prelim.

[Maximum Spin]

Mate. Don't do this. Antagonising the GM because you don't like the way they responded to you is A) not going to work, and B) childish. Work with the system. I'm positive that we could design a spell that propels something by magic. I'm equally positive we could design some form of teleportation that doesn't provide a shortcut to destroying the fabric of reality (it doesn't do so, but it implies that it could be modified to do so).

I'm afraid you're misunderstanding me. I'm being completely serious. This is the kind of thing I like. In practice, it's obviously effectively teleportation, but I'm thinking of it as more the way movie monsters move.

[all written pre-nukepost]Maximum Spin, you seem to have ignored the fact that your “fluff” included the ability to pass objects through other objects. This is in fact something that could have a mechanical effect in a game about high fantasy wizard wars. This is also a lot more difficult than just moving an object.

So teleportation in general is at that level? Okay, you could have just said that. Certainly, teleportation has ramifications around walls and the like, which I expected would be balanced, maybe by requiring line of sight, or any number of other possibilities. Your response implied that it was more to do with the specific phrasing about space, not the fact of being teleportation.

[NUKE9.13]

This is the problem, not the teleportation aspect:

it's more like pushing the threads of a weave aside to open a hole than like cutting them. [emphasis added]

That is, it's not teleportation at all. It's warping space to pass through things, and you describe how that could be used to devastating effect. If it was just A to C without passing B, that's fine. I'm sure MoP could deal with telefragging.

[Maximum Spin]

This is the problem, not the teleportation aspect:

it's more like pushing the threads of a weave aside to open a hole than like cutting them.

That is, it's not teleportation at all. It's warping space to pass through things, and you describe how that could be used to devastating effect. If it was just A to C without passing B, that's fine. I'm sure MoP could deal with telefragging.

That was meant to specifically rule out the possibility of devastating effect (other than the generic devastating effect of teleportation). It's literally saying "there is no effect on anything in between". From the perspective of the threads in the weave, nothing changed and they're all still connected.

[NUKE9.13]

This is the problem, not the teleportation aspect:

it's more like pushing the threads of a weave aside to open a hole than like cutting them.

That is, it's not teleportation at all. It's warping space to pass through things, and you describe how that could be used to devastating effect. If it was just A to C without passing B, that's fine. I'm sure MoP could deal with telefragging.

That was meant to specifically rule out the possibility of devastating effect (other than the generic devastating effect of teleportation). It's literally saying "there is no effect on anything in between". From the perspective of the threads in the weave, nothing changed and they're all still connected.

Rule it out for that spell, yes. But it implies a follow up design could do so.

[Maximum Spin]

Rule it out for that spell, yes. But it implies a follow up design could do so.

...I... guess? Only in the sense that, yes, you could design a spell to blow chunks out of things, but it obviously wouldn't be using the same process since this process explicitly doesn't do that. You seem to have read that as a more or less literal description of what the spell does, where there is actually a weave of some sort that you can manipulate the threads of, so cutting them becomes a possibility. That wasn't my intention. It's just an analogy. There's no implication intended that cutting is even a physically possible or meaningful concept - just that it definitely doesn't happen here.

[NUKE9.13]

Rule it out for that spell, yes. But it implies a follow up design could do so.

...I... guess? Only in the sense that, yes, you could design a spell to blow chunks out of things, but it obviously wouldn't be using the same process since this process explicitly doesn't do that. You seem to have read that as a more or less literal description of what the spell does, where there is actually a weave of some sort that you can manipulate the threads of, so cutting them becomes a possibility. That wasn't my intention. It's just an analogy. There's no implication intended that cutting is even a physically possible or meaningful concept - just that it definitely doesn't happen here.

Alright, fine. MoP can't read minds. And evidently that was a potential interpretation, considering both me and MoP made it. Now that this confusion has been resolved, you could try writing a teleportation design that is clearer. Or I could do so, if that'd help.

E:
Teleport: This spell instantaneously moves an object from one point to another, without passing through anything in between. The maximum size and mass of the object to be transported depend on the skill and power of the mage casting it. The destination must be free of obstructions for the spell to activate.

I could expand, but for the sake of example I kept it short. Also, I'd expect this to still be pretty difficult, as teleportation is a powerful ability.

[Maximum Spin]

Alright, fine. MoP can't read minds. And evidently that was a potential interpretation, considering both me and MoP made it. Now that this confusion has been resolved, you could try writing a teleportation design that is clearer. Or I could do so, if that'd help.

Anything is a potential interpretation of anything, but I have to say, you seemed to be reading a lot of extra words than I wrote. I'm not asking either of you to read minds, just not assume that I meant to imply something beyond what I said.

Whether it's worth writing a teleportation design is down to whether anyone is interested in voting for one, really – so it's probably a waste of effort. If you want to write one for people to consider for later, though, I won't complain.

[NUKE9.13]

Alright, fine. MoP can't read minds. And evidently that was a potential interpretation, considering both me and MoP made it. Now that this confusion has been resolved, you could try writing a teleportation design that is clearer. Or I could do so, if that'd help.

Anything is a potential interpretation of anything, but I have to say, you seemed to be reading a lot of extra words than I wrote. I'm not asking either of you to read minds, just not assume that I meant to imply something beyond what I said.

It is the nature of an Arms Race to constantly be on the lookout for ways to exploit things. Everything must be considered. Like, my diplomats design includes cloaks that attune the wearer to an element only in order to let humans function as diplomats, but that still gives us a leg up if we want to do something similar later on with more dramatic applications.

[Maximum Spin]

Alright, fine. MoP can't read minds. And evidently that was a potential interpretation, considering both me and MoP made it. Now that this confusion has been resolved, you could try writing a teleportation design that is clearer. Or I could do so, if that'd help.

Anything is a potential interpretation of anything, but I have to say, you seemed to be reading a lot of extra words than I wrote. I'm not asking either of you to read minds, just not assume that I meant to imply something beyond what I said.

It is the nature of an Arms Race to constantly be on the lookout for ways to exploit things. Everything must be considered. Like, my diplomats design includes cloaks that attune the wearer to an element only in order to let humans function as diplomats, but that still gives us a leg up if we want to do something similar later on with more dramatic applications.

Oh, I totally get that, I'm just objecting to the idea that saying something doesn't do something should be read to imply that it could. Otherwise I have no way to make a design safer by ruling out a possibility.

[Rockeater]

E:
Teleport: This spell instantaneously moves an object from one point to another, without passing through anything in between. The maximum size and mass of the object to be transported depend on the skill and power of the mage casting it. The destination must be free of obstructions for the spell to activate.

I could expand, but for the sake of example I kept it short. Also, I'd expect this to still be pretty difficult, as teleportation is a powerful ability.

So it doesn't get lost, MoP what would be the difficulty.

Something I would like is a magical arrow sheild design, would write it later if I remember.

[Man of Paper]

Teleport is around the theoretical/ludicrous line. As with WoE, it is in some way a pretty hefty manipulation of the fabric of reality, but your wizardmans are only really familiar with the very, very, very basics of the arcane.

[Doomblade187]

UwU. It is decided.

Avatar (not final vote)
Whiskey Jack, the Lord of Lines: ()
Limkeer Alnan, The Record Keeper: ()
Limkeer Alnan, The Record Keeper (but the island is covered in lush tropical forests): (1) A_Curious_Cat
Evivizet, The Current: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Doomblade
The Wolf of Wands: ()

Designs (pick two)
The Planar Trade Network: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Rockeater, Doomblade
Planar Diplomats: (1) NUKE9.13
Carracks of Kaynan: (3) Kashyyk, Rockeater, Doomblade