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Who should be the God of this world?

Maximum Spin
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Traditional Gods
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Other
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Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)  (Read 15789 times)

Maximum Spin

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2021, 01:25:22 am »

Back at camp now. I think my clay cup thing exploded somehow. I knew I was bad at pottery but I didn't know I was set-cereal-on-fire bad. I got a couple of "bricks" that have almost decent shape but I'm kinda scared to put them in the 'kiln' now. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Amateur pottery.

Okay, more helpfully. You probably didn't knead the clay enough. Air pockets are the most likely reason for a piece to explode in the kiln.
I guess I have to tell you how to do this properly too. Your best bet? Take small lumps of clay (small enough to hold in your palm comfortably), knead them in your hands vigorously - basically just squish them around - and then roll them between your palms to form thin snakes. Take a clay snake by the head - I mean, by an end - and start wrapping it around itself in a spiral, forming a kind of disk - and, as you go, gently offset the spiral to one side so that the disk becomes a dish. Make sure that the clay adheres firmly to itself all the way around without gaps. When you run out of snake, pick up another one and stick it on. Gently rub the inner surface - that's the concave one - so that you smooth out the ridges that show where the snake centers were. This should make a decent vessel, and this construction method can be scaled up to pretty much any form with enough snakes.

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I still don't have any sharp rocks
They don't have to be flint-tool-level sharp for this simple purposes, even just a jagged piece of shale you find on the ground or dig up should do it. But even if you really can't find anything like that, your hands will do fine; you can likely break off a chunk of bark even from a larger tree (I've done it).
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I was planning on cooking them over the fire in my cup...but for explosion-related reasons I don't have the cup anymore. My backups are still kinda mushy and might just explode if I put them over the fire. Any idea what I can use to heat it over my fire?
Well, I did just tell you how to make a better dish, BUT, since you probably want to eat sooner than later, if you're careful and don't actually stick the branch IN the fire, collecting some on a branch should do it. The sap will start to drip, but twirl the stick like cotton candy to keep as much on as you can, and it's okay if you lose some. The trees will make more.
ETA: Oh yeah, I was going to say, you can also use a rock. Again, though, put it NEAR the fire, not IN the fire. Incidentally, some rocks can crack in fire, and you might try putting any new kinds of rock you find into the fire to see if you can crack them and potentially get sharper rock fragments. From a safe distance, of course.

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Should I try to kill the birds with a stick or throw rocks or something?
...Sorry man, your best bet is to grab it and try to break its neck or bludgeon it. Don't be squeamish, you ate worms.
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How do I identify the part I'm not supposed to eat?
It's the big tube that goes from its mouth to its... not-mouth. The intestines, in particular, look like a big pile of intestines, that is, gross flesh-rope, basically. It might be safest to take a moment to go over the easily-identified organs you definitely can eat, of which the most important is the liver, a sort of brownish lump that should be in the ribcage and is probably one of the larger organs (although different bird species vary). The heart is also edible and is basically just a muscle; it is found in the ribcage, more or less right in the middle, looks remarkably like a human heart, and may still be pumping in a fresh kill. Both of these are unpaired organs, although the liver likely has two conjoined lobes. The pancreas in most birds is a kind of long tube usually found in a sort of fold of the digestive tract, shortly after the gizzard (the pouch that may contain stone or grit); it's not really much of a delicacy but is edible if you want to go to the trouble. The liver is also attached to the digestive tract (by the bile ducts), but far less firmly; don't confuse it for the pouches formed by the digestive tract itself. There are lots of other organs in a bird, but the heart and liver are the most useful as food. You can eat the brains and eyeballs, while I'm at it, but you don't have to. I know they're kind of gross.
Now, gizzards and intestines are in fact edible, but they need to be cleaned, and you're in no position to do that. The crop, however, is the very first pouch of the digestive system after the mouth, and may be full of undigested food the bird previously ate. Depending on the diet of the species of bird you found, you might be able to eat this stuff. Unfortunately, since I had you hunt using bugs as bait, you're probably just going to catch an insectivore, so this is not useful to you NOW, but as you get capable of hunting birds with other methods, or use other baits (ie, fruit), you should remember this. Avoid unfamiliar berries, though, as plenty of fruits are poisonous to mammals but not birds. You'll be most lucky if you catch a seed-eating bird, from which you can potentially harvest a haul of edible seeds and nuts. Even with the birds you're catching, though, anything in the crop can be repurposed as bait. The crop doesn't harbor the kind of bacteria that can harm you, contain any acid, or, most importantly, contain any feces, so you can eat it once you've washed it out, if you're desperate for more nutrients. It's made of muscle, but isn't the kind that's especially palatable - still, food is food.

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And uh...Ok, I just ate the berries whole without thinking about it. But before too long I think I'll have the seeds buried somewhere anyway.
That is one way to do it. I mean, that's how the birds do it. Farming is something that will take a long time to be useful, but you should get it started as soon as possible so that a long time is SLIGHTLY LESS long.

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How can I make two heads without a cutting tool? I can just kinda rub a stick hard on a rock to get a kinda-point, but I'm lost on how to make it split.
You can just start with a forked branch. Still, don't shoot for spear-fishing right now, as you probably have no way to clean the fish, and fish are nasty to eat without butchery. Well, fish are nasty anyway. I think you should stick to mammals for now; you should be able to work your way up to squirrels using the same 'sticky trap' method, with the right baits (fruit, seeds if you find any).

Are your vines thick or thin? It sounded a little like virginia creeper, which are thin and only a little woody. If the leaves are very jagged and make a kind of star shape, and those berries are arranged in a shape kind of like a grape bunch but looser and less dangly, that or one of the related species would be my top guess. I'm not going to ruin the fun by posting pictures, though. If so, do not under any circumstances eat the berries, but you definitely should be able to braid the vines, especially younger ones, to make a kind of rope. Otherwise, you should be able to braid rope out of the blades and straws of long grass, although it will be a lot more effort. One thing you should check is whether the vines have little tendrils coming out of them that end in sticky pads that adhere strongly to the tree; this is a feature of virginia creeper. In any case, your next homework is to make some rope.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:32:20 am by Maximum Spin »
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King Zultan

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2021, 05:45:31 am »

You could always make a crappy knife by sharpening a bit of wood against a rock, then hardening it over a fire, not as good as a rock knife but better than nothing.
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Stirk

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2021, 09:33:55 pm »

It looks like your berries are in fact bilberries (also called blaeberries, urts, hurts, hurtleberries, huckleberries, myrtleberries, wimberries, whinberries, winberries, blueberries*, or fraughan depending on location/dialect).

*They’re actually a different species than true blueberries.

Anyways, they are very much edible and can be used for a number of culinary purposes (basically anything you might use true blueberries for).

In addition, it appears that the leaves are (where? Will be?) used to make a medicinal tea for the treatment of diarrhea and other gastrointestinal disorders.

Most of those berry names sound like something out of an RPG, but its great that I have some food that can double as medicine! Especially if I'm going to keep eating sketchy food. Which I hopefully won't be. Thanks for all the research.

What do those purple flowers look like by the way are they light purple or dark purple tall or short many grouped up or spread out etc etc

I remember them being dark purple but I'll have to go back and check if you want more details. Do you think its worth checking out? Sorry I just didn't think they looked edible so I moved on with what I was doing.

Amateur pottery.

Okay, more helpfully. You probably didn't knead the clay enough. Air pockets are the most likely reason for a piece to explode in the kiln.
I guess I have to tell you how to do this properly too. Your best bet? Take small lumps of clay (small enough to hold in your palm comfortably), knead them in your hands vigorously - basically just squish them around - and then roll them between your palms to form thin snakes. Take a clay snake by the head - I mean, by an end - and start wrapping it around itself in a spiral, forming a kind of disk - and, as you go, gently offset the spiral to one side so that the disk becomes a dish. Make sure that the clay adheres firmly to itself all the way around without gaps. When you run out of snake, pick up another one and stick it on. Gently rub the inner surface - that's the concave one - so that you smooth out the ridges that show where the snake centers were. This should make a decent vessel, and this construction method can be scaled up to pretty much any form with enough snakes.



Well I didn't knead it at all so that might be the problem. I turned my four remaining backup cups into snakes and managed to get one actually pretty good cup shaped thing out of it. Its still not professional quality but this is probably the first thing I've made that I could potentially be proud of! If it doesn't explode at least.

Should I knead the bricks too?

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They don't have to be flint-tool-level sharp for this simple purposes, even just a jagged piece of shale you find on the ground or dig up should do it. But even if you really can't find anything like that, your hands will do fine; you can likely break off a chunk of bark even from a larger tree (I've done it).

I've done it too come to think of it. You guys had me get bark to make a fire. I'll go pick some up and get more bark. Then I can make a new fire for the cup too.

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Well, I did just tell you how to make a better dish, BUT, since you probably want to eat sooner than later, if you're careful and don't actually stick the branch IN the fire, collecting some on a branch should do it. The sap will start to drip, but twirl the stick like cotton candy to keep as much on as you can, and it's okay if you lose some. The trees will make more.
ETA: Oh yeah, I was going to say, you can also use a rock. Again, though, put it NEAR the fire, not IN the fire. Incidentally, some rocks can crack in fire, and you might try putting any new kinds of rock you find into the fire to see if you can crack them and potentially get sharper rock fragments. From a safe distance, of course.

The bushes still have a bunch of berries left, so I've been chewing on them whenever I got hungry. I think I've found something like twenty huckleberry bushes around my camp and the creek, I don't have anyway to really take them back or store them so I just eat a few until I get full while leaving some on the bush like you guys said too. So as far as being hungry goes there isn't any hurry.

So I can just roast it like roasting marshmallows? I guess I'll try both ways to see how it works out.

None of the easily-moveable rocks around camp are breaking from the fire, but I managed to collect around two stick's worth. Its harder to get large amounts than I thought it'd be though I guess that might just be my technique. I've been collecting it with a stick then scraping it on the rocks, except this one since I'm just going to put it over the fire. The rocks are having some trouble since if it gets liquidy it just kinda falls off the sides, and I can't move it away from the fire quickly enough with a stick. My stick is having some similar problems but the cotton-candying is helping. This would definitely be easier if the cup was done. I've got a new fire going for the cup, if I need to retry maybe I can just use it.

When I pull it from the fire it starts getting hard again. How long does it stay sticky enough to catch birds?

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...Sorry man, your best bet is to grab it and try to break its neck or bludgeon it. Don't be squeamish, you ate worms.

Got it. Killing things with my bare hands is something you guys have been telling me to do since I got here. I think I'm mentally prepared by now. If a housecat can do it then I probably can too!

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It's the big tube that goes from its mouth to its... not-mouth. The intestines, in particular, look like a big pile of intestines, that is, gross flesh-rope, basically. It might be safest to take a moment to go over the easily-identified organs you definitely can eat, of which the most important is the liver, a sort of brownish lump that should be in the ribcage and is probably one of the larger organs (although different bird species vary). The heart is also edible and is basically just a muscle; it is found in the ribcage, more or less right in the middle, looks remarkably like a human heart, and may still be pumping in a fresh kill. Both of these are unpaired organs, although the liver likely has two conjoined lobes. The pancreas in most birds is a kind of long tube usually found in a sort of fold of the digestive tract, shortly after the gizzard (the pouch that may contain stone or grit); it's not really much of a delicacy but is edible if you want to go to the trouble. The liver is also attached to the digestive tract (by the bile ducts), but far less firmly; don't confuse it for the pouches formed by the digestive tract itself. There are lots of other organs in a bird, but the heart and liver are the most useful as food. You can eat the brains and eyeballs, while I'm at it, but you don't have to. I know they're kind of gross.
Now, gizzards and intestines are in fact edible, but they need to be cleaned, and you're in no position to do that. The crop, however, is the very first pouch of the digestive system after the mouth, and may be full of undigested food the bird previously ate. Depending on the diet of the species of bird you found, you might be able to eat this stuff. Unfortunately, since I had you hunt using bugs as bait, you're probably just going to catch an insectivore, so this is not useful to you NOW, but as you get capable of hunting birds with other methods, or use other baits (ie, fruit), you should remember this. Avoid unfamiliar berries, though, as plenty of fruits are poisonous to mammals but not birds. You'll be most lucky if you catch a seed-eating bird, from which you can potentially harvest a haul of edible seeds and nuts. Even with the birds you're catching, though, anything in the crop can be repurposed as bait. The crop doesn't harbor the kind of bacteria that can harm you, contain any acid, or, most importantly, contain any feces, so you can eat it once you've washed it out, if you're desperate for more nutrients. It's made of muscle, but isn't the kind that's especially palatable - still, food is food.

I think I got it. I'll eat what I can stomach. Which will probably be the meat, heart, and liver. I'm not sure where secondhand food sits on my grossness list compared to bugs but it is at least an effective appetite suppressant until I can get my hunting done.I might try eating the maybe-parts if I can positively identify them and chase them down with some berries. Actually do you want me to use berries instead of bugs as bait? Or the berry seeds? The bugs are all already dead as requested so they're not particularly wiggly or anything.

Oh and I'm just going to roast it on a stick right? So I'll end up eating the skin instead of using it? Or do I try to take it apart with some moderately sharp rocks then roast the parts I'm interested in?

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That is one way to do it. I mean, that's how the birds do it. Farming is something that will take a long time to be useful, but you should get it started as soon as possible so that a long time is SLIGHTLY LESS long.

Are we going to make this the starting point of our brand new civilization? I mean its a nice place and I don't have any problems with that, but I just kinda set up camp here because that is where I woke up. I guess I have been too preoccupied with either survival or grand ideals to think about where I'm going to be putting down roots.

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You can just start with a forked branch. Still, don't shoot for spear-fishing right now, as you probably have no way to clean the fish, and fish are nasty to eat without butchery. Well, fish are nasty anyway. I think you should stick to mammals for now; you should be able to work your way up to squirrels using the same 'sticky trap' method, with the right baits (fruit, seeds if you find any).

Oh. Well that seems obvious in retrospect. Do I still have to kill the squirrels with my bare hands? I don't mind doing it. Its just I don't want to get scratched or bitten and can't really rely on my squirrel strangling skills.

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Are your vines thick or thin? It sounded a little like virginia creeper, which are thin and only a little woody. If the leaves are very jagged and make a kind of star shape, and those berries are arranged in a shape kind of like a grape bunch but looser and less dangly, that or one of the related species would be my top guess. I'm not going to ruin the fun by posting pictures, though. If so, do not under any circumstances eat the berries, but you definitely should be able to braid the vines, especially younger ones, to make a kind of rope. Otherwise, you should be able to braid rope out of the blades and straws of long grass, although it will be a lot more effort. One thing you should check is whether the vines have little tendrils coming out of them that end in sticky pads that adhere strongly to the tree; this is a feature of virginia creeper. In any case, your next homework is to make some rope.

Thin. They're kinda like the five pointed star shape I guess. That sounds right for the berries too. Sticky pads are there now that I look at it. So I think you're right on the money.

I'll try to take some over and make rope while I'm waiting for something to enter my trap. I just kinda...twist it together right?

Trap set up with my remaining bugs on a tree a bit from camp. Nothing yet.
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Fluffe9911

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2021, 11:23:43 pm »

Nah its not that important was mostly just trying to piece together where you are at currently I got you pinned based off the pine trees, huckleberries and Virginia Creeper somewhere in upper north america or lower Eastern Canada... which is a good or bad thing depending on your perspective
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2021, 11:53:29 pm »

Should I knead the bricks too?
Yes. Actually, there are bunch of different ways to make bricks which might be more suitable in your circumstances, so what did you want bricks for?

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The rocks are having some trouble since if it gets liquidy it just kinda falls off the sides,
Yeah, but then you have a glue-covered rock, so you should be able to place glue-covered rocks as traps.

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When I pull it from the fire it starts getting hard again. How long does it stay sticky enough to catch birds?
Conservatively, I'd say at least a couple hours? It's tackiest when it's started to harden a little and is no longer runny, but still soft enough to sink into. As I'm sure you noticed, the sap is very sticky even straight from the tree.
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Got it. Killing things with my bare hands is something you guys have been telling me to do since I got here. I think I'm mentally prepared by now. If a housecat can do it then I probably can too!
I'm so proud of you! Go out there and kill gruesomely in my name!

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I think I got it. I'll eat what I can stomach. Which will probably be the meat, heart, and liver. I'm not sure where secondhand food sits on my grossness list compared to bugs but it is at least an effective appetite suppressant until I can get my hunting done.I might try eating the maybe-parts if I can positively identify them and chase them down with some berries. Actually do you want me to use berries instead of bugs as bait? Or the berry seeds? The bugs are all already dead as requested so they're not particularly wiggly or anything.
Use a mix to catch a better variety of stuff.

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Oh and I'm just going to roast it on a stick right? So I'll end up eating the skin instead of using it? Or do I try to take it apart with some moderately sharp rocks then roast the parts I'm interested in?
I recommend you at least give the butchering a college try with your first catch, and see how viable it is with your current toolset. If you feel like it's just making a mess without being helpful, don't bother with it for now. I'd love to get you a proper knife, but man, that's going to be a lot of trouble. Shame you weren't carrying a pocketknife.

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Are we going to make this the starting point of our brand new civilization? I mean its a nice place and I don't have any problems with that, but I just kinda set up camp here because that is where I woke up. I guess I have been too preoccupied with either survival or grand ideals to think about where I'm going to be putting down roots.
That is entirely up to you. You're going to need to explore a lot anyway, but if you've got these nice berry bushes, this would make a perfectly viable home base.

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Oh. Well that seems obvious in retrospect. Do I still have to kill the squirrels with my bare hands? I don't mind doing it. Its just I don't want to get scratched or bitten and can't really rely on my squirrel strangling skills.
This is a fair argument, and it sounds like you've been able to make some nice pointy sticks, so you can work on your stabbing instead. Stabbing is an important life skill.

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Thin. They're kinda like the five pointed star shape I guess. That sounds right for the berries too. Sticky pads are there now that I look at it. So I think you're right on the money.
Perfect. Well, shame they weren't something edible, but virginia creeper is great for rope. I've never tried this, but supposedly the pads excrete a kind of biocement while the plant is alive, so they might be useful for something too.
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I'll try to take some over and make rope while I'm waiting for something to enter my trap. I just kinda...twist it together right?
Yeah. Take a few and twist them together in a sequence so that they lock each other in place a bit, like a braid. Well, it is a braid. For example, if you have three lined up and we call them A, B, and C, cross B over A, C over B, and A over C, then repeat.

If your hunting and rope-making works out, get some food in your pockets (do you have pockets?), make the longest pointy sticks you can get and reasonably carry, and set off for a little expedition. Watch out for bears. And moose. On the other hand, it'll be good if you can find any white-tailed deer... if you're far enough in the past or a post-apocalyptic future, they have no natural fear of humans; don't cause one just yet, but you're going to be giving them a good reason before long, because you need skins.

The purpose of the expedition, for now, is just going to be locating more resources, so make notes of everything you come across and where, and make sure to leave a trail. Let me know when you feel comfortable heading out.
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King Zultan

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2021, 02:19:40 am »

Since you appear to be in the US have you heard any aircraft flying over or seen any small flashing lights in the sky at night, or even the glow from something in the distance?
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but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2021, 07:31:30 am »

You should probably do that rib removal and woman creation ritual. Seriously people, why are we voting against this? If we’re following real world logic then he will do literally nothing and we can go about our days. If however he manages to succeed at any single level in the task of ripping out ones own rib and making a woman with it then we know we can fuck around with even more.
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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2021, 09:16:12 am »

You should probably do that rib removal and woman creation ritual. Seriously people, why are we voting against this? If we’re following real world logic then he will do literally nothing and we can go about our days. If however he manages to succeed at any single level in the task of ripping out ones own rib and making a woman with it then we know we can fuck around with even more.
if he does do nothing, thst was wasted time, and therefore still counterproductive
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Man of Paper

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2021, 02:23:32 pm »

Oh no the whole three seconds it would take aw jeeze
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Fluffe9911

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2021, 02:45:30 pm »

Oh no the whole three seconds it would take aw jeeze
Sadly cant change your vote once its already made
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ConscriptFive

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2021, 03:57:21 pm »

Oh no the whole three seconds it would take aw jeeze

So try some psuedo-Pascalian Wagers?

I mean, have we tried prayer?

Perhaps he should also yell 'Jumanji' just in case?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 04:10:39 pm by ConscriptFive »
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Man of Paper

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2021, 04:47:57 pm »

Yes let’s do all of that too, cover our bases.

Edit: I feel like people are misreading the title as Realistic Survival Simulator 9000. If the premise is actually restarting civilization then uh the way we’re going it’s gonna take us real time decades to do that
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 04:49:48 pm by Man of Paper »
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BlackPaladin99

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2021, 07:44:02 pm »

We could make a squirrel civilization!!
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We're talking about partially sapient undead spaghetti here, you can probably instruct it to only strangle specific diners.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2021, 08:26:41 pm »

Edit: I feel like people are misreading the title as Realistic Survival Simulator 9000. If the premise is actually restarting civilization then uh the way we’re going it’s gonna take us real time decades to do that
It's closer to not being possible, but Stirk has implied realism so far.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Restarting Civilization from Scratch- With the Help of a Forum (SG)
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2021, 09:14:54 pm »

That's probably due to the suggestions not based in extremely gritty reality being shot down, which doesn't really give Stirk much to play with either. Sure, he could go "oh man this mushroom grew me big and this flower lets me throw fireballs", but another key part of the title is "With the Help of a Forum", which tells me this could very well boil down to the game being a series of us giving Stirk prompts to fuck around with. If that's the case, then it'll stay grounded and realistic until we decide to change that, and progress will continue at a snail's pace. I mean damn, how much advice has been focused just on eating berries and playing with clay already? At the very least trying something unrealistic

Something like chanting kalima while tearing out your own rib and making a human woman out of it

is a solid test on whether or not this is firmly grounded in reality or if it isn't. Hell, it's pretty clear to me that even the PC is a little unsure about how real everything is. Shit, we might even be dealing with something akin to CHIM in the Elder Scrolls, which to put extremely simply and probably wrongly is an understanding that your reality is not real, and therefore you become less tethered by the rules of your reality.
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