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[ToonyMan]

@Jack:

Stop self voting

Chill, relax

Think about the game clearly. Look back at what people have said or not said. Stop filling the thread with insane jabbering. I'm serious. This doesn't help. I'm only town reading you because of the vote pressure that was applied to you during the course of last night as you were very likely to die, but did not act in the way I thought you would as mafia. I don't know how you would play as mafia. If the answer to town!Jack is whether they're spewing like a madman and I don't even need to read their posts because they're going to be pushing inane cases and not thinking clearly then so be it.

I would like to hear more from Bluarian yes so that's a good point.

Rolan7 needs a prod. FoU has time to post more now too.

[TricMagic]

Already prodded them.

[BluarianKnight]

Sorry, was busy yesterday.

Right..

@Blue: Why are you still voting Hedgerow? Can't you see all of their colossal mistakes are just newbie errors and not scumtells?  Let the poor fellow off the hook, will you?

I got lost in a cornfield.

Unvote.

Gonna do a read-through, but first glance..

Hedge feels townier now - they're posting, and it feels towny.

Euchre feels scum. They've gone x100 more agressive. I don't like it.

Rolan.. maybe town?

I dunno.

[ToonyMan]

@Bluarian:
What has Hedgerow done that is townie?

I don't think Jack being mafia makes sense unless the team is exactly Jack/FoU, but FoU should always be the one eliminated here first out of the two.

Rolan is a complete wild card. Their first post did not feel alarming but I think it means very little towards their alignment.

[TricMagic]

Last of the First Day Votecount, 12:03 PM

() BluarianKnight
(3) EuchreJack- hedgrow, prefuzek, EuchreJack
(0) prefuzek -
() Magma Mater
(0) webadictFallacyofUrist -
(1) hedgerow- Roden
(0) Roden-
(1) Rolan7- Toonyman
(1) ToonyMan[Veteran Player]- Magma Mater

3 not voting. 5 to lynch.

Day ends on Wednesday 9:40 AM Central Time

[ToonyMan]

I don't think Jack being mafia makes sense unless the team is exactly Jack/FoU, but FoU should always be the one eliminated here first out of the two.

Let me expound on this.

Fact:
Web is good at reading Jack, it's likely his read would be accurate. This carries forward into the Web/FoU slot.

Scenarios:
(from most to least likely)

#1
Jack and FoU are town.
Possible.

#2
Jack is town. FoU is mafia.
Possible. Feels slightly less likely than scenario #1.

#3
Jack and FoU are both mafia.
Unlikely. Jack spewed a bunch of reads while presenting a case against Roden who was very unlikely to be eliminated today when under vote pressure instead of say, Hedgerow. This attitude makes no sense from a mafia POV as Jack flipping mafia would invalidate their case they bothered to write on Roden. During last night mafia!Jack would have pushed for a more likely mislynch instead of going for Roden's head. They also voted FoU at one point but the pressure was very light.

#4
Jack is mafia. FoU is town.
Almost impossible. This means Jack had a very convincing town act when on death's row while also Web was wrong about Jack.

[BluarianKnight]

@Bluarian:
What has Hedgerow done that is townie?

They posted more - now, I've not time to dig deep yet, but I wanted to avoid being a part of a possible bandwagon.

[EuchreJack]

UNVOTE

Also, is town really ready for an end-of-day?  I mean, I don't want the game to go on forever, but maybe one more day, considering the replacement and several players needing to get back up to speed would be helpful?

EXTENSION

[EuchreJack]

Stop filling the thread with insane jabbering. I'm serious. This doesn't help.

@Toonyman [Veteran Player]:
Could you please tell me specifically what I'm doing right, so that I can do more of that?
Could you also tell me what I'm doing wrong specifically, so I can do less of that?

I mean, you are supposed to helping us play better, right?  And I understand not wanting to help Hedgerow as they are under inspection for being scum, but once you've got a better read on them, could you give them some advice as well?

It seems to me that you're not living up to your Veteran Player responsibilities.  I DON'T mean that as an insult, just my honest impressions.

I am trying to post less, and I am probably the only player that needs to post less instead of more.

[Roden]

@Roden:
I think you're right about Jack. Although I'm a bit miffed my reads are wrong, this definitely looks like a flaying townie now which I suppose is the exact info we need. This makes Web/FoU look better if true although not as cleared.

@Hedgerow:
I don't understand your case against Roden. Also you edited your post again.

In this case, do you think Hedge is our best bet if we were to wagon somebody? I don't think he's playing like a newbie town. I'm trusting you because of your reaction to Jack, you're trying to get him to calm down and stop flooding the thread and you'd have no reason to do that as mafia. Jack feels like a really easy mis-elim at this point.

So, there are a few ways to look at this.

Roden was so sure there was a BP player at the start of the game that he gambled and asked for him to come out, which EuchreJack agreed with, and pushed for, and then fought back against the suspicion, knowing no BP came forward.  Assuming that isn't completely true, which a townie would never gamble on, especially if it wasn't a BP, because that would leave two key roles, one of which would be risky to keep around and the other completely invalidated by the roleblocking mafioso.

So, assuming it was a gamble, and the doctor would never sell out, I'm going to change my vote to Roden.

Kinda cool.  I think the cigarette helped me with that.

Thing is, he had the advantage were he a townie, and he basically gave them one fewer turns to win were he a townie.  What's odd is the important role would find a way to be subtle getting rid of him, because he'd inevitably be a mafioso.

Your posts in general are really confusing and assume a lot...

But, did you just slip that we have a Roleblocker?

[Roden]

Extension

Nothing to add?

@Hedgerow:
There's two groups of players that can narrow down the setup on D1.

1. The town PRs, whether there's one or two they can't talk in private
2. The mafia, who can talk in private

Your argument against Roden, from what I can understand, is that they have additional info that vanilla townies wouldn't have. Is this a line worth pursuing solely? You're completely devoted to mechanics and analyzing the setup instead of just scumhunting.

How do you feel about the players? Who's scum for reasons other than possibly having additional knowledge?

EuchreJack is scum for just giving it to Roden over and over again; that much is clear.
Everyone else seems about normal.  Can't really complain.  Just a regular townie doing regular townie things.
Roden would give the advantage to the mafia though.  There's no good reason to put the BP out there and he was sure enough to pin him or his partner as a role.

Sorry, was busy yesterday.

Right..

@Blue: Why are you still voting Hedgerow? Can't you see all of their colossal mistakes are just newbie errors and not scumtells?  Let the poor fellow off the hook, will you?

I got lost in a cornfield.

Unvote.

Gonna do a read-through, but first glance..

Hedge feels townier now - they're posting, and it feels towny.

Euchre feels scum. They've gone x100 more agressive. I don't like it.

Rolan.. maybe town?

I dunno.

Aggression =/= scum. Somebody who thinks they're about to get mis-elim'd sets up a case for the next day. Scum would push for a different elim on the current day in order to survive. Town goes for revenge elims, scum does not.

[ToonyMan]

@Jack:

Stop filling the thread with insane jabbering. I'm serious. This doesn't help.

@Toonyman [Veteran Player]:
Could you please tell me specifically what I'm doing right, so that I can do more of that?

You need to focus your thoughts.

It's hard to follow someone who posts consecutively four or five times and each post is about something completely different.

I do this when I'm posting from my phone because it's easier and I can't format well - so I understand that - but either way you should think to yourself "what am I trying to convey in this post?" before hitting submit. I'm not trying to discourage you from posting, just see whether you can read your post as something effective towards your wincon.

Here is what I do when I'm back at a computer:

1. I read each post that has been made since I was away.
2. I try to understand the what/why each post is saying from that player.
3. I respond to posts with comments or replies directed towards one or more players.

Every once and awhile you should also be checking older posts and taking note of the "process" of each player. This can be daunting when there's a lot of players and it's not something I'm totally an expert at, but keeping track of each player's mental state is critical to scum hunting and why I keep a notepad handy for each game I'm in. People will contradict themselves because it's human nature, but you can definitely pick up on unnatural behavior that could indicate somebody is mafia.

Could you also tell me what I'm doing wrong specifically, so I can do less of that?

If you're town there's technically no downside to what you're doing right now from town's POV as you're making it obvious you're town. But this sort of openness is going to bite back on you hard when you eventually roll mafia. If you are actually mafia then I'm getting owned right now, but I think it's unlikely after witnessing last night and Web's read of you. I don't think you're doing anything super harmful as town besides muddying the waters and drawing attention to yourself.

What I would do in this situation is try to look at how players are reacting to you nearly dying. Are mafia on your wagon? Or are they playing innocent and seem to know you're town unnaturally? Which players?

I mean, you are supposed to helping us play better, right?  And I understand not wanting to help Hedgerow as they are under inspection for being scum, but once you've got a better read on them, could you give them some advice as well?

I want to. I've told Rolan and Hedgerow if they want any advice I can help them. They haven't wanted it.

I don't care if a player is suspected as scum I'm still going to help players in this game if they ask me. I can't help players in this game be good mafia, but I can try to help them be good mafia players.

It seems to me that you're not living up to your Veteran Player responsibilities.  I DON'T mean that as an insult, just my honest impressions.

I think this is the first newbie game I've ever been in. I've never been a mentor before either.

I am trying to post less, and I am probably the only player that needs to post less instead of more.

Try posting less, but with more to say. You don't need to convince people you're town, your actions will.


Newbie Game Philosophy:
I want to win and I'm playing to win, but I don't think I want to take the spotlight from newer players either.

If this game turns into a me/FoU/Blu lylo for example I'm going to cry.

I want to see good town play and good mafia play from the players I've never seen before. I will still play to the best of my ability, but as a secondary goal I want to see someone like Magma/Roden/Hedgerow/Rolan carry the game once I'm dead. I want to see a big convincing case from town on the last mafia member, or even the mafia pulling off a crazy gambit to bamboozle the town.

[ToonyMan]

@Roden:

@Roden:
I think you're right about Jack. Although I'm a bit miffed my reads are wrong, this definitely looks like a flaying townie now which I suppose is the exact info we need. This makes Web/FoU look better if true although not as cleared.

@Hedgerow:
I don't understand your case against Roden. Also you edited your post again.

In this case, do you think Hedge is our best bet if we were to wagon somebody? I don't think he's playing like a newbie town. I'm trusting you because of your reaction to Jack, you're trying to get him to calm down and stop flooding the thread and you'd have no reason to do that as mafia. Jack feels like a really easy mis-elim at this point.

I think Hedgerow is a better wagon than Jack currently, they're openly scummy but I don't think it's a likely mafia hit. I'm really not feeling Roden/Jack/FoU right now so if we take those players out we're left with Magma/Pref/Blu/Rolan.

That would leave the two mafia inside Magma/Pref/Blu/Rolan. Rolan could be with anyone. Would have to look at the other possibilities.

Do you see anything that looks convincing in there?

[EuchreJack]

@Toonyman: Thanks, I appreciate it!

In this case, do you think Hedge is our best bet if we were to wagon somebody? I don't think he's playing like a newbie town.

Why do you think that Hedge is not playing like a newbie town?

Spoiler: quote from hedgerow (click to show/hide)

So, there are a few ways to look at this.

Roden was so sure there was a BP player at the start of the game that he gambled and asked for him to come out, which EuchreJack agreed with, and pushed for, and then fought back against the suspicion, knowing no BP came forward.  Assuming that isn't completely true, which a townie would never gamble on, especially if it wasn't a BP, because that would leave two key roles, one of which would be risky to keep around and the other completely invalidated by the roleblocking mafioso.

So, assuming it was a gamble, and the doctor would never sell out, I'm going to change my vote to Roden.

Kinda cool.  I think the cigarette helped me with that.

Thing is, he had the advantage were he a townie, and he basically gave them one fewer turns to win were he a townie.  What's odd is the important role would find a way to be subtle getting rid of him, because he'd inevitably be a mafioso.

Your posts in general are really confusing and assume a lot...

But, did you just slip that we have a Roleblocker?

To clarify, did you mean that Hedgerow may have admitted there is a Mafia Roleblocker?

[EuchreJack]

@Roden: Please answer the above questions.