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[ToonyMan]

@Webadict:
You're crazy if you think I'd willingly pick Saint after playing as a doctor 80% of the time recently.

@Jack:

@Jim: You've voting prefuzek.  But you're not trying to build a real case against them.  Stop being lazy and get to work.  Maybe you can get Town to vote prefuzek, if that is your true intent.

Damn Jack we can't all be complete typing monsters like you. It's a holiday weekend!

[ToonyMan]

@Blue & FoU:

Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.

I'm going to go over this, since this topic has reoccured several times, and the scum are capable of using the possibility of third parties to disorient and confuse the town.
[...]

FoU is right. We're either dealing with 2 mafia or maybe two independent third-party factions like 2 SKs. I'm going to assume two mafia for now since that's easier to find and probably more likely.

[EuchreJack]

Blue, are you still down for voting Tric, like in this post?

[ToonyMan]

mfw entering this thread

[EuchreJack]

Despite misgiving in this post, Tric might still be around in D3

[EuchreJack]

Alright, enough shitposting, off to bed.  If I can't sleep, might post again (it happens sometimes).

[ToonyMan]

@Tric:

FoU falls into the case of not really having any flags, itself a flag for me. But that data is at least there, NQT throws up red flags without any green ones, and has very little to go off of given I could go over all of the posts pretty quick.

I may be poking Jack about me having something useful tonight and them saying NQT having something useful if they survive to day 3. (lost my train of thought.)

Well, point is NQT says that, but doesn't really have the posts to make them living that long useful to town. Hence NQT being either a thief or transmutor. The other useful classes are one-shot or passive luck.

So NQT is scum for not being active on D1?
I've seen NQT this lurky plenty of times on D1 as town.

FoU is scum because they're null to you?
Have they actually done anything that bothers you? I like their case on NQT, does it make any sense at all to vote NQT alongside FoU if you don't like either player? Doesn't that mean FoU would be bussing NQT? I find that an extremely poor plan of action in a power heavy game like this when you'd likely be the only scum left after.

[BluarianKnight]

Blue, are you still down for voting Tric, like in this post?

Nah - I'm honestly feeling NQT as scum, with Prez as his partner.

He's barely interacted with him - only one interaction, and that was the same post of his Quickfire reads that seemed to put barely effort in some, and a lot of effort in others, like Pref. Albeit, FoU already pointed this out in his own post. Something that hasn't been answered - and feels to me will be ignored if not brought up;

But since Prefuzek had so much justification in the first reads list, I have to ask. Why wasn't Prefuzek your towniest pick in the Quickfire reads? You clearly had more justification for him than Jim.

This was right after his 'slowfire' reads, which put Pref right at the top of the list..
Continuing my beliefs at the bottom for my vote.

My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

. . .

Jack's a new player - While he's still seeming super scummy, a lot of his actions to me tell me of a town!player still trying to figure out what they're doing - I did a lot of the same stupid mistakes in Supernatural 10. I don't want to vote a player just because he's learning, so I backed off.

As for Tric, his play felt super off to me - Far different, so I thought he was scum.

Players who are learning can still be scum.

Are you giving them slack just to give them slack? That would be concerning. If their skill factors into your read on them, then fair enough. There's a subtle distinction that I'm trying to get out of you that I don't think I'm effectively expressing.

There's a reason he's still null to me.

While he's flailing a lot - will say down below my opinions separately of his recent crap - he's also playing far too poorly for me to think a scum-team would even LET him - or at least try to distance themselves as far away as possible.

His newness does influence my decision somewhat - but it isn't a go-all-be-all. He's flailing, without plan or reason, but he has enough knowledge to shoot out claims and try to scumhunt. He's running in the dark, it seems - and even a newbie scum player would do better in my eyes.

Scum is easier to play as a noobie - you know who you're up against. You can play folks up against each other. As town, you have no idea who you can trust - Euchre is paranoid, jumping from target to target, seemingly switching targets constantly, basking up trees. Making a lot of mistakes along the way, but this level of play feels like newbie!town, which is why he's null. I won't confirm him as town with just that though, so null.

Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.

If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.

There was one in Roguelike 6 and Roguelike 5. There were two scumteams in Roguelike 3 which is sort of similar to having an SK.

Ah - I see. That leads me to my next question well;

Fine, fine, let's kill the SK first.  For all we know, NQT could be something truly awful, like a poisoner, an arsonist, or something else that gets worse with time.

Why do you think NQT is a SK?

@Blue2: What are your reads on Tric and NQT?  Also, please update your reads list if you feel they have changed.

Tric is slowly pushing himself to town to me - my only main push was him being far better, and looking at NQT, he and Pref really haven't done much together past confirm each other as town or null, even though they've both got similar reads-list, and voting!

It's almost like they've got a chat just for themselves.. a scum chat, perhaps?

Anyhow - I really, really need to go to bed.

[notquitethere]

Fallacy,

This reads thing is really rather tedious. I can't see how you can honestly believe writing a few extra words to describe my opinion of one player over another is at all indicative of anything. Both prefuzek and Euchre were making "norm policing" votes which was worth commenting on: I don't think they're good votes, but I don't think they're scum indicative either.

I'm not discrediting you, you're discrediting yourself by insisting on this absurd line of inquiry.

Ultimately how town I think town players are is pretty arbitrary. I downgraded Prefuzek for having a "norm policing" case in my quickfire reads, upgraded him in my slowfire reads for his more developed play by that point.

Tell me, do you really think any of this is alignment indicative?

Web,

I wanted to see what you actually do tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, I would have voted you. You can't make the argument "I'm scum, why aren't you voting me" that makes no sense. As for Toony-- he's been able to post more frequently than I have but has managed to do less. Do you like his posts?

How about Blu, you like Blu's posts then?

Euchre,

I've looked at all the players and concisely explained what I liked or didn't like about their cases. That's more than can be said for Web or Toony or Blu who have struggled to give reasons for their votes. What do you think about Web's bizarre threats to Prefuzek?

I don't personally think an SK is likely in a 9 player game.

Tric,

Right, before I get started, what is this NQT? Blue is voting me cause of meta-excuses, that I'm playing too well. Which really tells me you haven't read the thread, which makes the whole readlist suspect. Your initial toony vote didn't really have a reason either, just pressure that never went anywhere.

When Blu voted you they gave no reasons. And I explained my Toony vote clearly at the time, that they had posted a bunch and hadn't done anything. This is still true.

In your big post you've made too many questions, I don't want to waste my morning trawling through all that. I will say that, by "norm policing" I mean, that there are mafia culture norms of the forum like "don't rolefish" or "don't claim everything D1" or "don't vote someone immediately after they vote you" that aren't always particularly alignment indicative, but that players like to enforce for the good of the game.

As for charts, before my read I did of course tabulate everyone's votes, which is something I almost always do, but the day's not over so it's too early to share.

You've wasted a lot of time working out possible teams I could be in, as I'm not actually scum.

Toony,
I didn't feel compelled by Jack or Jim's prior reads but it might have given me the idea to do my own. Why is Tric scum?

Jim,
Nobody likes being eliminated on D1, it's not alignment indicative to want to know the votes, is it?

Blu,
I haven't interacted much with Prefuzek as I don't think they're scum and it's only D1. I've barely interacted with you other than voting you, does that mean we're partners?

Prefuzek,
What do you think of Web and Blu's insistence that you're my scum partner?

[notquitethere]

This is where I'm at generally:

- Tric is putting a lot of eggs into the one basket of reading me as scum, with all these team compositions; this makes me feel pretty good about Tric, as scum!Tric would know that that's a losing strategy: when I flip town, what's next for D2? A lot of wasted effort.
- Web and Toony are both pursuing lines of attack that amount to "why are you reading me as town when I'm actually so scummy", and you know on one level I'm tempted to take them at face value and say OK, "so you're saying you're scum then"? Web in particular has claimed he will fakeclaim a mafia read on prefuzek tomorrow, which is so bizarre it's not possible to take seriously. I kinda want to wait until D2 and see what he's planning.
- Euchre is being led by the nose to wherever; truly abysmal.
- I still don't like Blu, especially now they've conveniently switched over to attacking. OMGUS king strikes again.
- Jim, Prefuzek and Fallacy are fine I guess. Fallacy has this bizarro tunnel on me, but I'm confident he can take off the blinkers eventually.

[notquitethere]

To reiterate again for EuchreJack: D1, it is extremely early to start believing in serial killers and arsonists and the like. If I'm clearly not partnered with anyone, what's more likely: I'm a serial killer in a 9 player game?* Or I'm not actually scum?


*Assuming 2 mafia, that would mean 1/3 of the players are anti-town. Bit much!


Blu, why are you "feeling NQT as scum"? The post with your vote only gave reasons why a scum!NQT might be partnered with Prefuzek, not why you think there's a scum!NQT to begin with. Explain your reads, please.

[webadict]

@NQT: If you are Town, I think looking at Bluarian would be a  necessity.

I do not like that Bluarian has been copying my votes, but I literally said not to vote TricMagic and to vote you, so in this case, I have no justification.

RE:Toony, also would require a look, but seemingly less so. I know that seems contradictory, but ToonyMan... just doesn't feel as scummy? Yeah, fair, that's not good justification, but intuition is intuition.

But, it feels like you are gauging my reaction on whether shifting to voting them would be a good idea, since it very much appears that I am in a position of power over the vote with the merging of the Euchre, Tric, and Bluarian bloc.

If you want to say I am pointing out that you're not voting me, no, I can actually agree with voting Blu over me for a variety of reasons, but maybe it’s because that on the surface, what I did is a scummier move than BK, but your reads list are a list of surface reads with seemingly removed context, so by that logic I should be scummier, but I'm not.Why did I keep voting after having no justification? Why did BluarianKnight OMGUS? Why did I swap from Tric being the scummiest player to being townread? These whys matter, and it feels like you're removing them when you read to justify your vote, as opposed to actually trying to find scum.

[notquitethere]

If I was looking to make up stuff to justify a vote, why not just keep it parked on Toony? Toony didn't change much between my reads. No, on reading the new content I came to find Blu worse and so moved my vote accordingly. In a short reads list, I'm summarising a lot of things, I don't need to write an essay on each individual aspect.

But you make one reasonable point: next I will take a closer look at Blu. Let's see if I really have a case here or if my suspicions misplaced...

[TricMagic]

To NQT's 'mega' post. Put simply, the first part of it reads as getting people to question if what they think is actually true. Which I really don't like.

As for ignoring my mega posts and it's many questions. It's an obvious move, when you don't have explanations and need to make up a bunch of them. How about this, just answer these.

- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.

Are you a sane killer nqt?

BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?

Why ask blue this question though?

- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.

2: I like waffles, but not the type web serves. What do you think of web now NQT?

What does norm policing mean anyway?

So to make it clear, Notquitethere, how do you plead? Here, or Guilty?


Believe it or not, these are the only questions in that post. Oddly enough the same number of posts you made pre-lurkertrack.

Of course, you did answer one of them, but..

In your big post you've made too many questions, I don't want to waste my morning trawling through all that.

You answered the mechanical/social one, the one a veteran player would use greentext for in a newbie game for advising. You completely skipped the ones that could give insight into you. (Note, you could have skipped the first and last question too. So that's 2 questions left you didn't answer, not really a lot is it?)

[BluarianKnight]

Blu,
I haven't interacted much with Prefuzek as I don't think they're scum and it's only D1. I've barely interacted with you other than voting you, does that mean we're partners?

It isn't your amount of interaction - but the substance of what those interactions are.

Most people have either not interacted barely at all past read-lists, or have been talking/questioning each other constantly. You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.

As for OMGUS claims - I flipped because the arguments on you from Tric and Web were fairly strong, not that you were voting for me - albeit how you voted alongside Pref did push me to that conclusion.

Scum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.