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Author Topic: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report  (Read 39605 times)

notquitethere

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #810 on: February 01, 2021, 04:18:48 pm »

I enjoyed the game. I think there were good players on all sides. I like it when it's close! Short days helped keep things pacey.

I think the masons and mass of protects and cops and watchers made the setup very challenging for the mafia but they were given a lot of varied tools to play with.

Here's the mafia quicktopic.
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Toaster

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #811 on: February 01, 2021, 04:19:47 pm »

Good game, folks!  I feel a bit better about being able to make some analysis now that I have a less insane game under my refreshed belt.

1)  Yep!  See above.
2)  It was nice, yes.
3)  I did.  It was an interesting twist on Masons where the dead mason had something useful to do after death.
4)  Hmmm.. I'd think it became a bit swingy, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad.  What did you change when going from 11 to 12 players?
5)  Going off the hammer vibe, there was quite a lot of hammer action, and that's okay!  It's there to be used.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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webadict

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #812 on: February 01, 2021, 04:23:14 pm »

1: Did you have fun with the game?
2: Did you enjoy the flavor?
3: Did you like your role?
4: What do you think about the setup balance?
5: Any other comments?
1. Yeah, but Night took forever. Maybe it was because I didn't have a powerful role, but definirely my biggest complaint was having to wait, which ain't a bad one to have.
2. I liked my role flavor, yes.
3. My role was absolutely the worst role in the game. I like that I was given it, but an issue that would have made it better would be allowing me to not give out Hotdogs when I'm targeted. It basically means I can't count the number of people that directly targeted my target. Additionally, forcing my choice at Day start means I can't use any information from the Day to prove someone's claim, so I'm forced into other specific choices. I have to pick number because otherwise, I'm screwed on information, or I have to get lucky and hit someone that lies about the Hotdog. It basically forces me to choose count, which isn't awful, but it felt like a fake choice. And given how my role interacted with NQT, I was still put in a bad spot anyway. Basically, it was stronger than a Fruit Vendor, but still very, very weak. If I could pick both options, I'd probably have been equal power to some of the other roles.
4. Kinda balanced. Surprisingly horrible for the SK, and the Mafia got a LOT of power, but the Town had a few ways around it. Town is definitely the powerhouse there. Masons are OP. Cops are OP. JOATs are OP.
5. Who the fuck took all Night to action???
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Caz

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #813 on: February 01, 2021, 04:27:34 pm »

I enjoyed the game. I think there were good players on all sides. I like it when it's close! Short days helped keep things pacey.

I think the masons and mass of protects and cops and watchers made the setup very challenging for the mafia but they were given a lot of varied tools to play with.

Here's the mafia quicktopic.

HAHA my acting 3rd party just made you think I was SK? Well that went well.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #814 on: February 01, 2021, 04:35:07 pm »

Spectator Chat. Very little here, tbh, mostly just a few D1 comments from before my big game started.

TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #815 on: February 01, 2021, 04:56:25 pm »

And Deadchat, as the last to die I have yet to read it.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #816 on: February 01, 2021, 04:59:48 pm »

3. My role was absolutely the worst role in the game. I like that I was given it, but an issue that would have made it better would be allowing me to not give out Hotdogs when I'm targeted. It basically means I can't count the number of people that directly targeted my target. Additionally, forcing my choice at Day start means I can't use any information from the Day to prove someone's claim, so I'm forced into other specific choices. I have to pick number because otherwise, I'm screwed on information, or I have to get lucky and hit someone that lies about the Hotdog. It basically forces me to choose count, which isn't awful, but it felt like a fake choice. And given how my role interacted with NQT, I was still put in a bad spot anyway. Basically, it was stronger than a Fruit Vendor, but still very, very weak. If I could pick both options, I'd probably have been equal power to some of the other roles.
5. Who the fuck took all Night to action???
Yeah, I was pondering making Greasesniffer a Day action instead of an Auto and giving you that little bit more flexibility. In retrospect it would have been a good idea.

With regards to that point? Yeah, that's pretty much on me. The 'process once all actions are received' is with the caveat of 'me having time', and I'm a college student. I still have a decent amount of free time, but it does mean I can't just immediately get on with processing as soon as I receive all the actions, not in all cases at least.

4)  Hmmm.. I'd think it became a bit swingy, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad.  What did you change when going from 11 to 12 players?
I added an extra Town role. Funnily enough, I miscounted and accidentally designed 8 town roles instead of 7, so SHAD0Wdump showing up just let me make the setup work, lol.

4. So many cops and protects.
Yeah, another thing in hindsight would be replacing one of the direct-investigators with an indirect-investigator or action-interferer. Maybe a tracker? Flat 'Tracker' without modifiers wouldn't have been the worst idea.

4. So many cops, lulz. I felt it was a little unbalanced because town hit scum D2 and D4, and still only won D5 by accident. It was unbalanced in an anti-town way because there were so many scum. It was unbalanced in a pro-town way because we had waaaaaay too many cops, proteccs, and watchers. I really liked the non-SK masons and the idea of masons that only really became viable after one of them died. I liked less that the game became very driven by mechanical confirmation, which leads into point 5 ...
A little unbalanced in every direction, heh.

I want to at least think that it was a valid game - one with sufficient balance to make it fun to be in.

I was pondering a Vigilante role, but I didn't want to have that much swing with an SK already being present. Though Secretdorf took much longer to gain their abilities than I thought - I think that was because of the subconscious 'SK=kill' assumption, so I felt like scum would die faster, but since there was no vigilante and poison wouldn't come early, it'd take at least two lynches minimum to allow Secretdorf to poison, and as if it would happen that fast.

The mechanical confirmation thing is an issue in any setup where literally everyone has a power role.

An alternative to Tric's role would be Randomizer Cop - both inspects and randomizes the target, which might have made his role a little more reliable but passes the unreliability onto others.

In hindsight, really, there were a bunch of things I could have done better - but I can't let that distract me from the fact that this is still the best mafia game I've run so far. Because it was unbalanced like a spinny top, but the unbalances sorta cancelled each other out, and the setup worked. It wasn't horribly broken against the players or against myself. Every party had a reasonable chance to win.
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A Thousand Treasures (And You).

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #817 on: February 01, 2021, 05:29:04 pm »

Deadchat message 104, thank you V. No way I was leaving that to chance. I mean, it's Luckyowl. Better to be sure. Preps the Doomspeaker bomb to investigate Toony's vault of secrets.
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hector13

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #818 on: February 01, 2021, 05:40:54 pm »

Quote from: FallacyofUrist
It comes down to exact wording. The way I implemented the commute ability was 'become completely immune to Night actions for the duration of this Night', not 'be removed from the gamespace for the duration of this Night'. The latter would provide a specific message. With this implementation, a generic 'action failed' message would be provided instead.

There's no component of your ability that would let your target know that you in particular targeted them.

(Remind me about this message after game end and I'll tell you something interesting.)

My ability was a challenge to use, but that was in no small part down to me being indecisive and not wanting to interfere with another townie’s ability.
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notquitethere

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #819 on: February 01, 2021, 05:43:50 pm »

I wonder how the game would have gone if I'd have just kicked back and let the town kill Web on D1 instead of Caz. Probably more doctoring.
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webadict

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #820 on: February 01, 2021, 05:46:23 pm »

I wonder how the game would have gone if I'd have just kicked back and let the town kill Web on D1 instead of Caz. Probably more doctoring.
I was the least powerful role in the game, but my guess is... better thanit did!
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notquitethere

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #821 on: February 01, 2021, 05:48:34 pm »

It's not all about the role-- you being able to pay attention and form logical inferences made you more of a potential threat... but we kept you around because we had you onside.
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TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #822 on: February 01, 2021, 05:51:06 pm »

Quote from: Mafia Message 16, ToonyMan
Being fake confirmed masons with Luckyowl would be an incredibly powerful position to be in I think. Especially because I doubt there's any other cops besides us

Yeah, about that...
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Vector

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #823 on: February 01, 2021, 05:51:34 pm »

you being able to pay attention and form logical inferences

wow low bar
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Luckyowl

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 / Game Over - Agent Eats Hot Dogs While Writing Report
« Reply #824 on: February 01, 2021, 05:57:43 pm »

Great game! Man, I think my biggest regret was not pushing the suspicion on ToonyMan earlier. For the most part I was pretty suspicious of him throughout the game. But if I was more confidence on my suspicion. I might've convinced everyone ToonyMan was mafia.

I think what really tick me off as TM as mafia was that he claimed our role to make himself look town. When the most town thing to do. Is to stay hush for day 1 THEN claim on day 2 with evidence at hands.
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