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[Robsoie]

Attempt of new thread about the excellent Cataclysm serie of games.

Cataclysm is a post-apocalyptic roguelike, set in the countryside of New England
after a devastating plague of monsters and zombies.

Cataclysm is very different from most roguelikes in many ways.  Rather than
being set in a vertical, linear dungeon, it is set in an unbounded, 3D world.
This means that exploration plays a much bigger role than in most roguelikes,
and the game is much less linear.
Because the map is so huge, it is actually completely persistant between games.
If you die, and start a new character, your new game will be set in the same
game world as your last.  Like in many roguelikes, you will be able to loot the
dead bodies of previous characters; unlike most roguelikes, you will also be
able to retrace their steps completely, and any dramatic changes made to the
world will persist into your next game.

Cataclysm's gameplay also includes many unique quirks, and the learning curve is
somewhat steep, even for those experienced with roguelikes.  Included with the
game is a tutorial which runs the player through most of the key features.

So far i am aware of 4 games in the Cataclysm serie :

Cataclysm (the original from Whales)
https://github.com/Whales/Cataclysm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87501.0

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead (the first fork that appeared after Cataclysm development ended)
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/
https://cataclysmdda.org/
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174824.0

Cataclysm: Bright Night (the fork of CDDA following a different direction )
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases

Cataclysm Z (the continuation and bugfixing of the original Whales game)
https://github.com/zaimoni/Cataclysm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174897.0

At some points Whales wanted to come back and create Cataclysm 2 but development halted
https://github.com/Whales/Cataclysm2
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137846

Edit : forgot about one
Cataclysm: Looming Darkness (a multiplayer rewrite of CDDA)
https://github.com/stolencatkarma/CataclysmLD

Edit : there also exist a game extremely inspired by Cataclysm, "what if Cataclysm was in real time instead of turn based"
Nearly Dead
https://monosw2000.itch.io/nearly-dead

Links to past Cataclysm threads on Bay12 (the 3 are locked) if you're interested in old Cata thread archeology :

Whales' Cataclysm thread :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121194.8175

CDDA thread 1 :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121194.0

CDDA thread 2 :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149157.0

NOTE :
I'm not involved in any ways with the development of any of them so hopefully this will allow the thread to not getting locked for heating too much as the previous thread unfortunately did.

I understand it can be hard to do this when you're attached to a game but please try to stay cordial and keep your cool.
Always ask yourself what the Fonz would do in a zombie apocalypse and it should be OK

[Majestic7]

I hope I don't start a flame war of any sort with my innocent question: I used to play Dark Days Ahead but I kind of lost interest when micromanagement increased more and more with each update, while fun decreased. Is Bright Night something that would then provide the game experience I might enjoy more? Scanning the changes so far -page didn't answer this question outright.

[Robsoie]

I'm just starting a new character in BN , and as it's been long time i have not played DDA i can't really answer for you, but from the look of the listed changes it seems to have less features that negatively target only the player, so for my taste it should by default be more enjoyable.

[IonMatrix]

Just asking, but I was always a bit confused to why Cataclysm was refered to as a roguelike. Maybe because the original one was more,well, like a rogue-like?

[Robsoie]

Usually people call games that are turn based + permadeath of your character + have randomly generated situations (envinroment, items, encounters) simply roguelikes, and as Cata had those elements it entered the category roguelike.

Personnally i would classify Cataclysm more like turn based survival game (similarly to UnrealWorld) because Cata really to me do not have the same atmosphere i feel when i play what's more classic roguelikes, it does not put me in the same type of mindset.

[Iceblaster]

Honestly Roguelike's entered the pop culture as something like the above yeah, I don't see the semantics really worth dealing with outside of actual classification for the purpose of sorting -but even then people have gone and made up terms like 'traditional roguelike' and 'rougelike' to add two more classifications that all confuse me.

[Damiac]

I think the roguelike thing is just like how all fps games were "doom clones" for a while.

Turn based survival might be more accurate, but does it convey the fighty stuff? UnrealWorld is not very combat focused. Survival in cata is ridiculously easy, outside of the fighting stuff.

Turn based action survival sorta covers it a little better, but it's wordy and every game can't be its own genre.

"survival roguelike" could kinda work, but then, you try to survive in most games.

To me, cata is defined by the giant crafting system, including vehicles and such, the open ended-ness, and the fighting zombies and lovecraftian horrors.. 

[Robsoie]

Forgot about another Cata game , Cataclysm: Looming Darkness that was supposed to be the multiplayer rewrite of CDDA :
https://github.com/stolencatkarma/CataclysmLD
No idea what is the status about it or if it's actually playable (i see it has a couple of new commits every couple of months) as i don't see any discussion about it out of an old thread on reddit :
https://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda/comments/86ua47/update_thread_for_cataclysm_looming_darkness/

[EuchreJack]

They always seems pretty roguelike to me.  If anything, Cata is more roguelike in that you start in a life-threatening situation, whereas many roguelikes usually have a safe zone that you start.

It does however lack a specific monster at the end that you are supposed to defeat and get the game won/high score screen.  But mods can add some of that.

[Robsoie]

Looks like BN has a "victory condition" so there's the possibility of an endgame there.

[EuchreJack]

Looks like BN has a "victory condition" so there's the possibility of an endgame there.

Reading the change log of BN, it does seem more action-y.  Looks like it might run better too.

[Egan_BW]

My cents: Cataclysim is an "Open World Roguelike". It plays very similar to classical roguelikes, but with the layered dungeon replaced with an overworld. It's not unique in this either, because Dwarf Fortress and some other games work the same way.

[Robsoie]

Testing around Bright Nights

So Snake escaped from New York in a taxi

I escaped from a military base in a forklift

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[heydude6]

Posting to watch. I think this is the 4th new thread that I've seen for this game so far. Hopefully this one can actually last. Since we aren't just focusing on the controversial Dark Days ahead this time, maybe it actually will.

@discussion

Honestly, I agree with the sentiment that this game shouldn't be called roguelike, simply by virtue of the fact that it lacks a victory condition. ADOM has shown that you can make a roguelike with an open world (it has multiple endings you can achieve), so that shouldn't be what determines the label. I wonder if that means Caves of Qud isn't a roguelike either then, even though it's basically ADOM without the endings<sup>1

1</sup> It's more like DF Adventure mode on steroids

[EuchreJack]

I wonder if that means Caves of Qud isn't a roguelike either then, even though it's basically ADOM without the endings<sup>1

1</sup> It's more like DF Adventure mode on steroids

Nah, it just means Caves of Qud isn't finished.  It's been a while since I've played it, but it always seemed to me that it was going towards a final conclusion which just wasn't written yet.