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Author Topic: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory  (Read 35434 times)

webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #525 on: November 11, 2020, 10:39:47 pm »

Honestly, if Persus13 had said no on D3, you better believe they'd be in a heap of hot water.
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Persus13

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #526 on: November 11, 2020, 10:42:39 pm »

I didn't claim because I expected to die N2 guarding someone.
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webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #527 on: November 11, 2020, 10:47:41 pm »

I didn't claim because I expected to die N2 guarding someone.
It made complete sense to me. Guards work off of being able to protect others, and that's best done secretly.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #528 on: November 11, 2020, 10:56:43 pm »

True. But, Persus' role had a benefit to secrecy. Yours didn't. And when I wanted something from Persus, they answered without hesitation, and goddamn if I can't respect that attitude.
That doesn't compute. Just this game Caz showed the value of the Detective role, if I was a town Detective tomorrow I'd feel I'd want prevent the scum from knowing it, or I'm toast and can't role debunk, like again, Caz did.

Hesitation?

Lucky, I see your question, but I would like to postpone answering at this moment. Is that alright with you? Technically, you could ask me to do anything, and I'd be forced to, but if you could extend some trust to me, I'm going try to bring the number of suspects down to 2, if possible. It just requires the remainder to claim.

The very next post was me.

That sounds interesting. I'll claim as Investigator. I guess I'd have liked to have claimed after the others that haven't yet did so. But I am pro this plan(and wouldn't be able to explain not claiming without implying). If Owl dies I'd like to be protected unless someone has something better. If webadict is Mafia then this stunt should atleast be fun to watch.

In 30 minutes I answered 2 role claims without hesitation.

Shit. If you're mafia I feel like you are working something fancy. Especially because you got me to reveal that on Night 1, I discovered TricMagic is a bodyguard.

"and goddamn if I can't respect that attitude."
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RoseHeart

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #529 on: November 11, 2020, 10:59:46 pm »

I want to listed to you very closely Webadict, and anyone giving feedback. It's the only way we humans become less naive and stupid.

But I am not just gonna role over and say, Ok! That's a good one, if little bells go off from contradictory evidence.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
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RoseHeart

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #530 on: November 11, 2020, 11:07:06 pm »

But I appreciate you throwing out what ever comes to mind. It was a shit storm.
-TricMagic didn't believe my role was possible (out of my control)
-N1 webadict detection error (out of my control) (didn't know if I should claim it)
-Lack of posting, while you and Persus perhaps didn't mine, many others cited (bio)

A lot of these came together in the worst way, at the worst time, at the same time.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
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RoseHeart

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #531 on: November 11, 2020, 11:08:57 pm »

Sorry if I sound snappy, it's just because I am actually listening.

Edit: It takes a certain amount of vulnerability.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 11:11:52 pm by roseheart »
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

Luckyowl

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #532 on: November 11, 2020, 11:36:10 pm »

Actually in D1. Webadict was unnerved by your silence and inability to get a read on you. That might've had some influence on why Webadict turned his suspicion towards you on D3.
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webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #533 on: November 11, 2020, 11:47:35 pm »

True. But, Persus' role had a benefit to secrecy. Yours didn't. And when I wanted something from Persus, they answered without hesitation, and goddamn if I can't respect that attitude.
That doesn't compute. Just this game Caz showed the value of the Detective role, if I was a town Detective tomorrow I'd feel I'd want prevent the scum from knowing it, or I'm toast and can't role debunk, like again, Caz did.

Hesitation?

Lucky, I see your question, but I would like to postpone answering at this moment. Is that alright with you? Technically, you could ask me to do anything, and I'd be forced to, but if you could extend some trust to me, I'm going try to bring the number of suspects down to 2, if possible. It just requires the remainder to claim.

The very next post was me.

That sounds interesting. I'll claim as Investigator. I guess I'd have liked to have claimed after the others that haven't yet did so. But I am pro this plan(and wouldn't be able to explain not claiming without implying). If Owl dies I'd like to be protected unless someone has something better. If webadict is Mafia then this stunt should atleast be fun to watch.

In 30 minutes I answered 2 role claims without hesitation.

Shit. If you're mafia I feel like you are working something fancy. Especially because you got me to reveal that on Night 1, I discovered TricMagic is a bodyguard.

"and goddamn if I can't respect that attitude."
But Caz had already shown themselves. An extra Detective doesn't make you a bigger threat, it makes you extraneous. Caz was 99.999999% proven Town. Like, there was nothing you could provide that Caz couldn't already do. In fact, Caz's existence forced you to claim truthfully.

You can't surprise someone after that.

Hesitation meaning they explained that they did not want to claim. What that means is that there was a reason they didn't claim, and since we weren't at fullclaim mode, there wasn't a reason to push it on D2. Pursuing that would've been rolefishing, and therefore unnecessary.

The issue I think you have an issue with is that Persus13 got away with it, and you didn't. But Persus13 did it on D2. You did it on D3. There was no longer a reason to hold back. We literally had one Doppelganger left, which meant you fullclaim.

I pushed you because you could either reveal the liar, or you could explain why there was no nightkill. That was precisely why I wished to claim last. It meant I had the burden of proof to show why there was no Nightkill. Because you refused to claim N2, you left open the possibility that you did the kill. It was a bizarre play on your part if you were Town.

Like, it was so scummy that I basically forced the lynch. When you finally got forced to reveal, your action was inspecting the claimed Detective that was almost 100% proven. It made no sense. Like, I cannot stress enough to you that your actions were insane at best, and brazenly scummy at worst. If you were Town, what you did was a huge liability. It made you such an easy target. And you wanted to bring that into the next Day.

I want to stress that again. What value did your actions bring the Town? You did not find scum. You did not claim when needed. You tried desperately to stay alive.

You did everything wrong on Day 3, except one thing. You didn't give up. You were stubborn, and that could win you the game against a town without the will to fight it.

The next time you get in that situation, your whole plan needs to be to find someone scummier than you, and you don't do that by making yourself look like five scumteams at once. When I said find the last Doppelganger, I meant it. You had a way out, and it was to press TricMagic, Persus13, or I and find the cracks in our cases and expose them. You also had to defend your decisions up to that point.

The long and short of it is that Day 1 is not Day 2 is not Day 3. Luckyowl is right. You were a passive observer and seemed unwilling to suspect anyone hard. I didn't like it, and it was part of why I initially suspected you Day 3. Your actions on Day 3 cemented my decision to want to lynch you. If you had proven you were an asset to the Town, the Town would defend you. At the end, you still chose to be passive. Passivity doesn't win games.

You used random chance to try to outwit the game. And true, that makes scum's actions hard to read. But, if you want to get better, make decisions yourself. Leave the randomness at the door.

TL;DR: Take action.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #534 on: November 12, 2020, 12:33:15 am »

I agree. I thought that your random roll to investigate *someone* was quite lucky, but the fact that the only option to investigate that you gave yourself was Caz was a poor choice. Someone that town didn't have a solid read on would have been a better choice, since it would have been an easy claim to make early D2 to help prove your innocence.

If you'd picked TricMagic or Persus13, you would then have had something to go off on. Not killing was actually a decent move, since it mostly made people suspect that the dopp tried to kill someone and failed rather than assuming a no-kill night on purpose. And by having some solid info to give town you make yourself appear more Town.

And in this case having more than one Role-cop on the town team isn't a strong reason to let you live. Two detectives is quiet possible from a game balance point, especially as Detective isn't a super high weight role for Town like it is for Dopps. So the arguments that you had to be scum for being a second Detective were something that could be countered. But only if you enthusiastically looked town.

I'm not sure you could have won given the situation, but you certainly could have gotten at least to day 4 and maybe 5 before you got lynched by some clever use of the knowledge you have. Especially since, once the town starts full claiming, it's easier to just lie as a dopp detective and say stuff like 'Yeah, I checked so-and-so and they are what they claim' when you actually did a kill.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #535 on: November 12, 2020, 03:14:58 am »

I agree. I thought that your random roll to investigate *someone* was quite lucky, but the fact that the only option to investigate that you gave yourself was Caz was a poor choice. Someone that town didn't have a solid read on would have been a better choice, since it would have been an easy claim to make early D2 to help prove your innocence.

I didn't know Caz had counter claimed and that's why he looked pro-town. Don't think I saw that until just about the last couple of pages when I commented on it.
I didn't know he claimed to be a detective and claimed to have investigated me until
Spoiler: here (D3) (click to show/hide)

Basically I read about 4 times slower than average(a lot of it is rereading for comprehension), and I get exhausted easily. I had to do a lot of skimming to have some idea of what people were currently deciding upon. (I could perhaps try playing while I am not hosting any games. That sounds like a long stretch without my primary creativity outlet, however.)

Without that knowledge, I believed Caz was unknown, and his involvement with Juice was that he joined the lynch-wagon early.

Tactically speaking these assumptions I am working with, painted a different landscape for who to investigate. I can't see why it would have been a bad idea. (I just missed a lot of the information that everyone else had)

Honestly I don't know why I picked Caz, but please consider my assumptions at the time.

Quote
If you'd picked TricMagic or Persus13, you would then have had something to go off on. Not killing was actually a decent move, since it mostly made people suspect that the dopp tried to kill someone and failed rather than assuming a no-kill night on purpose. And by having some solid info to give town you make yourself appear more Town.

Nice.

Quote
And in this case having more than one Role-cop on the town team isn't a strong reason to let you live. Two detectives is quiet possible from a game balance point, especially as Detective isn't a super high weight role for Town like it is for Dopps. So the arguments that you had to be scum for being a second Detective were something that could be countered. But only if you enthusiastically looked town.

I kind of balk at that. If you're goal is only to cultivate your maximum w/l ratio, you forgo making most of the present. I learned about the Megatron game-plan that is prevalent here, and I'll keep that in mind. But it doesn't make me personally any less an Optimus Prime. A 4 survivor victory is greater than a 3 survivor victory in my book. Not because it easy, but because it is hard. And I will always want to save Bumblee if it is possible.

I guess it's the difference in wiping your ass with industrial economy toilet paper, or Sharmen. You may get more rolls for the same price, butt so what?

Quote
I'm not sure you could have won given the situation, but you certainly could have gotten at least to day 4 and maybe 5 before you got lynched by some clever use of the knowledge you have. Especially since, once the town starts full claiming, it's easier to just lie as a dopp detective and say stuff like 'Yeah, I checked so-and-so and they are what they claim' when you actually did a kill.

I donno, I did do exactly that. With Caz. With Tric. Didn't work. Not even D4.


Webadict was confused by my condridicting I should know their role. It was time for me to log off, and when I came back armed with the new information well a chain of events were already in motion.
TricMagic thought my roleclaim was impossible.
Luckyowl thought my withholding was scummy. I'd have done the same thing as town, with the knowledge I had at the time.

Look, I get it, throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bath-water tactics meant I wasn't as safe as I assumed. Lesson learned.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

Caz

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #536 on: November 12, 2020, 04:40:34 am »

"You haven't even seen my final form!"

*grabs popcorn*

Permission to sig?

Edit: I feel it sums up my phoenix spirit that manifests when I feel I am expected to go down quietly!

Knock yourself out. :P
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webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #537 on: November 12, 2020, 09:16:21 am »

@Roseheart:

It would be hard for me to even consider that Caz was a worthwhile investigation target. But, if he was, you needed to claim that immediately.

Your claiming style was incredibly anti-Town. If you wanted to withhold info to prove people, it would not have been possible in your case because you were suspicious. I tried to reiterate that so you would understand that you were in deep trouble.

Basically, you misread the situation by a lot and came to a different conclusion because of that. You can see how, to me, that reads as scummy instead.

I see where your confusion is on why to lynch you. It isn't the maximally efficient way to play this game. We could continually NL until all remaining are reduced to 3 and lynch then. But this game doesn't always involve making the most maximally efficient moves. We can make moves that are maximally efficient based on our understanding.

The issue you present is that if you were Town, you would be a liability. You needed to make yourself indispensable. That means scumhunting. That means coming up with a plan. Being Town isn't enough to be indispensable.
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Shakerag

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #538 on: November 12, 2020, 09:45:38 am »

No one tried to kill webadict.  Weird. 

Also, webadict alive on D3 is a total policy lynch. 

webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia 26 - Game over! Town victory
« Reply #539 on: November 12, 2020, 09:50:15 am »

No one tried to kill webadict.  Weird. 

Also, webadict alive on D3 is a total policy lynch.
Finally, someone that understands the webadict Is Still Alive Theory.

Almost every game I am alive after D3, I have a win chance of ~90%. If I'm scum, the win chance is 100%, I believe.
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