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[A_Curious_Cat]

I wouldn’t mind having gunpowder (and even guns) as long as it kept to the cut-off.  Among other things, this would mean that guns would not, necessarily, be powerful enough to penetrate good quality armor.  It would also mean that cannonballs would be made of stone (although I suppose dwarves might try various metals).  Another thing it would mean is that flintlocks and gunlocks wouldn’t exist.  Instead you would fire your cannons using linstocks and carry (at best) matchlocks (better pray it doesn’t rain).

[Shonai_Dweller]

I wouldn’t mind having gunpowder (and even guns) as long as it kept to the cut-off.  Among other things, this would mean that guns would not, necessarily, be powerful enough to penetrate good quality armor.  It would also mean that cannonballs would be made of stone (although I suppose dwarves might try various metals).  Another thing it would mean is that flintlocks and gunlocks wouldn’t exist.  Instead you would fire your cannons using linstocks and carry (at best) matchlocks (better pray it doesn’t rain).

But after all, what's Ships! without cannons?

And, yeah, with all this knowledge of metals, I expect dwarves would use something better than a lump of rock for their cannonballs. DF isn't a 1400 Earth simulator after all.

[Nordlicht]

But after all, what's Ships! without cannons?

Ballistas? Catapults? Humans didn't just exchange insults between ships before the invention of cannons

And I think Toady said doesn't want to go beyond 1400 for technology.

[Shonai_Dweller]

But after all, what's Ships! without cannons?

Ballistas? Catapults? Humans didn't just exchange insults between ships before the invention of cannons

And I think Toady said doesn't want to go beyond 1400 for technology.

And I got the thought on cannons with ships, because Pirates! direct from Toady in one of his musings on ships.

[LordBaal]

Believe or not, pirates existed much longer before the invention of cannons, wooden legs, eyepatches, parrots or scurvy. However they were not near as rad as the most recent pirates.

[betaking]

I don't even care about cutoffs, I'm one of those weirdo's who really liked "warhammer fantasy" for taking it's setting towards the later medieval period,

[Egan_BW]

Technological advancement is more of a huge interconnected web than a straight line. It wouldn't make sense for a fantasy world to advance in exactly the same way as our world, especially with magic nonsense thrown into the mix.

[betaking]

I mean among the questions one could have with regards to cannons are the other things that go into more specific detail that I doubt will ever be simulated.

stuff like "do dwarf craftsmen have precision", yeah they might be able to craft something "masterwork quality" but what does that mean when, for instance, discussing a ballista, crossbow, or say, musket.. they're not using lathes, rifling is going to be incredibly difficult if damn near impossible for them to implement. I'm entirely unsure of toady's stance on iron (or god forbid steel) casting. Parts are likely not interchangeable, and from what I've seen the AI is nowhere near the point where you could have anything close to the organized formations..

[MC]

I'd very much like at least a mod that brings people up to around 1600s era muskets. That was a really interesting period as far as fortress design goes and I'd love to play around with it.

Also, in general I would like it if explosions were expanded upon. They're technically in the game already when rapid evaporation happens, but there really isn't much force behind them. I am aware that this would allow the construction of rudimentary cannons, but I don't see players being able to make functional cannons much of an issue when you can already make actual computers lol.

[HmH]

I wouldn't mind gunpowder...
...if it was exclusively used for bombs and breaching charges, and only goblins were given the secret of gunpowder at worldgen.

That would be Fun - it would make goblins stand out as the only real threat to a properly built fortress - and quite Tolkien-esque to boot.

Believe or not, pirates existed much longer before the invention of cannons, wooden legs, eyepatches, parrots or scurvy. However they were not near as rad as the most recent pirates.

And the most recent pirates aren't nearly as rad as the 17th century's pirates are made out to be.

[LordBaal]

Look at me, now Im the captain.

I tend to think the other way around. Gunpowder should be give to the dwarvenkind instead of goblins.

[HmH]

Look at me, now Im the captain.

I tend to think the other way around. Gunpowder should be give to the dwarvenkind instead of goblins.

Goblins have access to demon lords. Dwarves generally don't... except for a very brief period of time after they dig too deep.

[Starver]

I'd not personally support the idea of gunpowder firearms. Maybe rockets, but highly random in their trajectories - including exploding in-situ - perhaps a mood/morale-adjuster for the most part, except for anyone who chances to be directly hit (when it's a low-powered dragon-breath sort of attack) or tile-adjacent (when it's a lesser version of a cave-in like concussion).

I'm sort of erring towards gunpowder as viable for one-use and one-tile pickless-digging/deconstruction tool when applied to a floor (downwards) or wall (applies into that given wall).  Current cave-in effects affecting anyone in the proximity. Lever activated[1]? Half-half chance of being activated by a neighbouring gunpowder explosion?

Should be 'merely' flammable in raw form, like alcohol. It needs containerising (a workshop job[2]) to be explosive?

Could effectively do the same work as a lever-pulled Support, if used on a lone pillar of rock, etc ('dissapears' a single tile, perhaps give or take strength/nature of the MAT and/or quality level of the device... lower-than-success could convert to cracked-MAT which  may be susceptible?).  I'm gonna suggest that Spoilermetal veins be a total exception to this, and just absorbs any exploded charge without even weakening (it'd make in-canon sense, given its various qualities, and it also keeps 'in' the creatures it keeps in, even if they also can't (yet) get through even constructed soap walls...) or else it'll make for a too easy 'remote' method for seeing how far you can dig before you dig too far

If combat(/sabotage)-usable by (un)announced hostiles, should not be a quick place-and-leave thing. Should be a delicate or at least purposeful job to set it up by whoever attempts it. (Not as 'simple' as the cinematic Breaching Of Helm's Deep, a la Peter Jackson, for example.)

Probably should be the same for 'peaceful' self-use (perhaps a job like Architect with the skill to prepare the site - low skill might make for unpredictable eventual implementation), but there'd be nothing to stop you 'mining' your Hall Of Columns entryway in creative ways for potential future last-gasp demolition (then worrying about gremlins doing whatever gremlins might do to set it off without your will).

Would be a new way to tap into water/lava, after prepping the rest of aqua-/magma-ducting all the way up until the final lining wall of stone where you place your breaching-charge.




I'm not saying I fully approve of gunpowder, but after much thought (which I know is not at all entirely novel to this thread) the above are some thoughts about how to empower its use and make it non-trivial to do so.


[1] I'm not sure which lore to go for: If dwarves discovered it and use it, Levers are their tool of activation. Other races might instead light it. Perhaps you need an open trail of it leading to the lighting point (I can imagine the graphics/ascii depicting the burning leading along the entrail-like line of laid powder).

[2] Workshop has a chance of exploding, inversely proportional to whatever skill the workshop asks its workers to use...  Anyone with "dabbling" is probably not a good opportunity.

[PineMarten]

I wouldn't mind limited gunpowder tech implemented thoughtfully. Something relatively primitive like an Arquebus wouldn't seem too out of place I don't think.

[MC]

Seconded. Actually trying to add them into my current mod (well tanegashima technically which are a bit more advanced) and the lack of gunpowder based propulsion is a pain. I could make them just "work" like guns really easily without doing anything fancy at all, reload time and everything, but adding in the chance for the weapons to fail and making the ammo go boom if say you have a dragon mishap is annoying.

Also the fact that I could add in guns pretty easily but something more primitive like firelances are virtually impossible bothers me.