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Author Topic: SHADOW EMPIRE: Procedural Sci-fi 4x wargame - Kaiju Warning  (Read 84338 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #255 on: June 23, 2020, 09:51:46 am »

The other amazing thing was that when the major did get a hold of some territory next to it, a town would appear and it would build a farm in 3 turns while fighting this two sided war.
That's expected, no? They need food to feed their troops. If you have the city surrounded, then it's a priority.
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E. Albright

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #256 on: June 23, 2020, 10:16:39 am »

Re: figuring out how odds work, doing some savescumming is rather useful for getting a feel for how odds correspond to outcomes. 1:1 something only to do if you're desperate or don't care at all about the units you're attacking with.
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EuchreJack

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #257 on: June 23, 2020, 02:43:06 pm »

Also recon.  Usually there is at least one unit that you don't know about.

I surrounded them on turn 1. By Turn 2 they are at war with the minor faction. I waited until turn 3 to where they only had 2 units at home and backup was far away. Completely surrounded they didnt even lose 1 man. So I tried a different tactic and waited. The minor surprisingly started winning the war and brough it to the majors doorstep. I surrounded 4 hexes of the city and the minor 2.
The major went from 2 units at home on turn 3 to 107 units by turn 14ish. All with just one city hex. They had arties and advanced soldiers.
It was a militia only start.
I dont know what to do. Restart and let it fight the minor battle while I deal with the slavers for more territory and time? The danger on my doorstep is wrecking havoc on my happiness.
How are we supposed to beat majors in a normal game? Cheese tactics or wait until we are as advanced as they quickly get?

I don't really "get" the question here (and I'm not singling you out nautilu, this is a common complaint on the Matrix forum).  Why does the major need to be destroyed?  The player "beats" all the majors by having more population and controlled hexes than any of other majors.  If a major is trapped to one city, and is bleeding their population on your defenses, then you've "beaten" them: They're certainly not going to be winning this game.

Also note that majors start on ruins, same as the player, which is the easiest terrain to defend.  I'd suggest surrounding with MG infantry, load with defense stratagems, and moving on.  Any luck taking their newly-built farm?  Dunno if it spawned on a ruins, if not then it might be easier to take.

This also reminds me of another player that wanted to destroy The Corporation when playing a Commerce profile.  It made sense on the surface: Commerce reduces happiness.  Yet The Corporation also slowly corrupts all the leaders into liking Commerce, making good relations really easy with the leaders if they continue to exist, since they are being corrupted into liking the regime's profile.  So The Corporation is actually a great thing for a Commerce Regime.

Knave

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #258 on: June 23, 2020, 04:14:12 pm »

I think this sort of thing comes up every now and then because very often on regular difficulty and above you begin directly beside 1 or sometimes 2 majors even if you gen the largest map possible due to how the designer wanted civilisation to be clumped together instead of spread out.

If you're just starting out you probably have the tools and the ability to push the AI back into his home city, but you often don't have the tech or the councils to actually improve your soldiers or even get artillery or new strats (unless you get lucky!) to finish them off Meanwhile they have enough resources to keep building up infantry and improve designs leading to a long drawn out slog.

Not sure what the best way to handle this would be really. On one hand if you've beaten an enemy down to their capital space to the point of a stalemate, is there really much point in drawing it out for the player? If I'm thinking of this from a 4x standpoint, they should be easier to conquer and have their resources added to yours.
But from a wargame perspective capitals are valuable resources and you don't want to make a meta built on rushing majors to become OP.

Maybe it would be better if starts were actively more spread out, that way all the majors have a bit more room to grow and tech up, and you feel less obligated to try and rush a war so you don't have a huge hostile power breathing down your neck?
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Dostoevsky

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #259 on: June 23, 2020, 05:25:45 pm »

Re: figuring out how odds work, doing some savescumming is rather useful for getting a feel for how odds correspond to outcomes. 1:1 something only to do if you're desperate or don't care at all about the units you're attacking with.

I think one of the various Youtube videos mentions this, but (perhaps in part thanks to situations with less than 400 intel) I sometimes find odds really misleading. That's on both ends of the spectrum, too. There are situations where the odds given to me look really really bad (well, like 1:1) but I can tell based on the troops on both sides, the relative situation, etc., that it's going to be an easy battle - and it generally is. Other times the odds look really easy, but I have a good feeling there are e.g. more troops there than current intel indicates.

And as to taking major cities, I probably wouldn't do it without a healthy balanced attacking force preluded by significant rocket/missile barrages (or at least artillery). While they don't cause many casualties on their own, they can do a decent number against entrenchment and really ruin readiness.

While a capital is only a single hex, if that hex is a ruins space then they can have food, metal, IP, etc. all on that one hex. Combine that with long-term unsustainable (but short-term okay?) recruitment levels, and one could hold out pretty well for a while.
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a1s

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #260 on: June 23, 2020, 06:14:31 pm »

I've taken my first sector (yay!) and I can't for the life of me figure out how to extend my logistical network there. It says I don't have a logistical connection when I try to build anything there (like a truck stop,) and I need troops to be stationed there to reduce the unrest.
What am I missing?
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Il Palazzo

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #261 on: June 23, 2020, 06:37:29 pm »

I've never had that problem. Where does it say that?
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a1s

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #262 on: June 23, 2020, 06:45:21 pm »

Spoiler: on the build screen (click to show/hide)
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Il Palazzo

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #263 on: June 23, 2020, 07:04:27 pm »

Ok, I managed to replicate it. So apparently you need the city hex to be in supply. It doesn't seem to need actual road connection with logistics points on it, just to be in off-road range like your units (I think).
Try extending your existing supply lines by building a truck stop or a supply base somewhere along the road to the city, so that the city is in supply range. Turn on the 'Show Op. Log.' overlay in the map layers tab on the right to see which hexes are in supply.
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sunrakhan

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #264 on: June 23, 2020, 08:33:53 pm »

I doubt you could get away with that hex not being connected by road.
I suspect it's more of a case of wanting to build something there instantly after conquest, before waiting for the turn resolution in order to ensure your logistics can spread to that hex.
A screen capture with the Current Pts logistics map filter turned on would allow us to ascertain if that's indeed the case.
But by the time I'm posting this, a1s probably advanced at least a turn, and the issue is most certainly solved.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 08:35:49 pm by sunrakhan »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #265 on: June 23, 2020, 08:39:08 pm »

I tested that before posting. You can build w/o road connection. Immediately after conquest you can't even access the construction screen. The turn after you can build normally, as long as it's within operational supply range.
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E. Albright

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #266 on: June 23, 2020, 10:31:03 pm »

Has anyone gotten any of the special local militias that the manual vaguely alludes to? It seems like any game where I conquer any meaningful amount of neighbors ends up being a game I'm next to nothing but generic farmers.

I'm wondering if any of those include things like dino riders, though I haven't seen those even as enemies since my first game or three. I do wish there was a bit more by-planet uniqueness like that in the units you can put together...
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EuchreJack

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #267 on: June 23, 2020, 11:15:04 pm »

You know the event where rebels agree to join you, if you fund them and declare war? I'm pretty sure I had one play-through where the rebels that joined me had animal riders.

A Thing

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #268 on: June 23, 2020, 11:30:36 pm »

Has anyone gotten any of the special local militias that the manual vaguely alludes to? It seems like any game where I conquer any meaningful amount of neighbors ends up being a game I'm next to nothing but generic farmers.

I'm wondering if any of those include things like dino riders, though I haven't seen those even as enemies since my first game or three. I do wish there was a bit more by-planet uniqueness like that in the units you can put together...

As in actual unique units? Not really, but I have fought 'slaver' infantry. They don't seem to be any different from normal rifle militia though, just a different unit icon and description. Might be something that's going to be added in patches maybe.
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Vivalas

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Re: SHADOW EMPIRE: Sci-fi 4x wargame on a procedurally generated world
« Reply #269 on: June 24, 2020, 02:23:58 am »

Re: figuring out how odds work, doing some savescumming is rather useful for getting a feel for how odds correspond to outcomes. 1:1 something only to do if you're desperate or don't care at all about the units you're attacking with.

I think one of the various Youtube videos mentions this, but (perhaps in part thanks to situations with less than 400 intel) I sometimes find odds really misleading. That's on both ends of the spectrum, too. There are situations where the odds given to me look really really bad (well, like 1:1) but I can tell based on the troops on both sides, the relative situation, etc., that it's going to be an easy battle - and it generally is. Other times the odds look really easy, but I have a good feeling there are e.g. more troops there than current intel indicates.

And as to taking major cities, I probably wouldn't do it without a healthy balanced attacking force preluded by significant rocket/missile barrages (or at least artillery). While they don't cause many casualties on their own, they can do a decent number against entrenchment and really ruin readiness.

While a capital is only a single hex, if that hex is a ruins space then they can have food, metal, IP, etc. all on that one hex. Combine that with long-term unsustainable (but short-term okay?) recruitment levels, and one could hold out pretty well for a while.

This. Odds are very broken. Ive even seen the odds screen's troop counts be in direct conflict to the amount of troops declared by the strategic map.

The game's battle system is very nuanced and takes timr to get used to when is and isn't a good time to attack, but some general tips:

1.Infantry are generally better at defense than offense.
2. Armor excels at leading encirclements and punching through lines.
3. counterattacks are great, if you can support them (although I thought I saw a "counterattack" penalty once while attacking? dunno. but in general failed attacks can plummet enemy readiness and give you a better chance)
4. Multiple flanks not only increases attack power but also max stack size
5. People sitting still generally are heavily entrenched after a turn or two. Combine this with infantry tanking their readiness after long marches and being prepared to push before the enemy even gets to your lines is very important.

Some other things I forgot
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