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Author Topic: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition  (Read 496814 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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As is the usual pattern, there are legitimately things to criticize about Fauci (though not lying about masks, IMO that was completely justified), but the flood of right-wing conspiratorial bullshit makes it almost impossible to even address them without being examined for Nazi tattoos.

For example, he was deeply embroiled with the government intentionally letting AIDS kill as many people as possible in the 80s. While his personal control over that decision was limited and it's disputed how much he should be blamed, he was part of the whole thing at the end of the day.
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martinuzz

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Fauci is what kept you guys alive during the Trump idiocracy
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

martinuzz

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Amsterdam's soccer team, Ajax, became national champion in an empty Amsterdam ArenA stadium.
However, outside the stadium, many thousands of fans had gathered to drink and cheer during the match, closely packed together.
Let's hope our already overcrowded hospitals don't see a surge of sports idiots with corona next week.


Kids, don't do sports. It's bad for public health. Smoking is safer.

EDIT: Amsterdam city authorities estimate the number of fans crowding the stadium at around 12000. Authorities decided to not let the police intervene, not wanting to escalate such huge numbers of drunk hooligans into rioting.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 02:46:15 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

bloop_bleep

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Got jabber #1 today soon after my eligibility. Surprised to find out that only about half of America has gotten at least one dose and that only about one third have gotten both...
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Akura

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Got jabber #1 today soon after my eligibility. Surprised to find out that only about half of America has gotten at least one dose and that only about one third have gotten both...

Ayup. And my mom seems to think that's enough to declare "pandemic over". ::)

Planning on going to the pharmacy tomorrow to schedule my vaccination. Would have done this sooner, except I wasn't aware the availability of the vaccine had become... well, available in a pharmacy yet.


Oh, and apparently they've allowed churches in my area to reopen for in-person services, marked by crowds of people at busy street corners shoulting "Jesus loves you!". Had I not already passed them before realizing what was going on, I would have been tempted to shout back "Hail, Satan!" just to see the response.
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McTraveller

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Just got my second injection today.

The logistics of getting half the country to one dose, and 30% of the country to two doses, is pretty impressive though.  Seriously, given that there are so many people who are hesitant, and about 60 million people (close to 20% of the total population) are under 16 so aren't yet eligible, I'd say the US is doing surprisingly well with vaccination efforts given our current culture.
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MrRoboto75

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I worry about the accumulating apathy though.  There's rumors and also announcements (in pfizer's case) of needing booster shots, and I have serious doubts you can motivate people to get them.
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Vector

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I worry about the accumulating apathy though.  There's rumors and also announcements (in pfizer's case) of needing booster shots, and I have serious doubts you can motivate people to get them.

I will gladly get mine. This year has all but killed me.
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Frumple

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I worry about the accumulating apathy though.  There's rumors and also announcements (in pfizer's case) of needing booster shots, and I have serious doubts you can motivate people to get them.
Flu shot does... alright. Ish. But it'd basically be that, and what folks have been saying is a likely results for the plague anyway, it ending up a seasonal flu. Folks motivated for booster type junk well enough prior to the whole ~lived through a global scale plague~ thing.
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Bumber

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Fauci is what kept you guys alive during the Trump idiocracy

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/14/context-trump-criticizes-look-back-faucis-early-co/

I think we're alive in spite of him, TBH. There were other doctors on TV giving better advice from the beginning. Issue was knowing which ones to listen to.
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Starver

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Fauci is what kept you guys alive during the Trump idiocracy

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/14/context-trump-criticizes-look-back-faucis-early-co/

I think we're alive in spite of him, TBH. There were other doctors on TV giving better advice from the beginning. Issue was knowing which ones to listen to.
Have you been reading a different article to the one you linked there?
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Akura

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Turns out the pharmacy doesn't allow in-person scheduling of appointments. Gotta go through either their phone system or website. Kinda wish they'd actually mention that on the website, before I take the time to go there.
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Bumber

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Have you been reading a different article to the one you linked there?

Have you?

Restricting travel "not a good idea at this time" -> "We've done really quite well", credits early travel restriction on China.

Mask use by the general public has little value in preventing COVID -> masks prevent you from touching your face -> mask protection better than no mask -> in US, "absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask" -> really meant to prioritize people who need them.

"An epidemic is not driven by asymptomatic carriers" -> people shed virus and spread it before they actually feel sick -> large fraction of people infected remain asymptomatic and can transmit even without symptoms.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Starver

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You'd have a better reason to address the 'travel ban' if it weren't a leaky sieve of a presidential policy that was just a (selective) gotcha against the Asian world (by US definition) to add to prior and unrelated spurious travel bans pre-pandemic (ironically, including bits of the Asian world by UK definition).

It's your strongest point, as I nearly said, but still lags behind a far bigger contender for "I think we're alive in spite of [him]".

The mask statements were all far more sensible (at any given time) than many other sources, especially You-Know-Who.

The statements about transmission, ditto.


Think of the two widely-spread tramlines bounding opinions over time. There were, are and doubtless will continue to be the Chicken-Littles who have long espoused total sky-falling-in scenarios, even if they never knew it would be Covid until Covid happened and they struck lucky with something real to rail about when before it was whatever the last Hollywood disaster movie was about (and, incidentally, they're no longer apparently worried about environmental degradation, WW3, unobserved near-Earth-objects, whatever else they were previously siezing upon). Ditto, those that are the living embodiment of that dog with a mug in the increasingly burning room that are holding to the "This is fine" line.

Between the two, those who will to some extent significantly change their minds when new information becomes known to them. What is the problem with Fauci having done that? Did he not do it enough? Did he do it do it too much? I'm not even sure what your complaint is. But given he had the burden of a dead-weight hovering over him, I'm surprised he managed to properly adapt as quickly as he did without being fired/’asked'-to-resign, with probably disasterous results to further attempts to nudge the official line into a (more) useful parity with reality.

If he held back the idea of a travel ban, it was at a time when not only was the picture far from complete (even with expert advanced briefings, not available to the public, he couldn't yet employ the full "2020 hindsight" we have now), and the actual TB trumpeted but vastly misrepresented  wasn't even effective. Even if it stopped 100% of trans-Pacific travel (it did nothing of the sort) and had totally sealed off the southern border (it didn't, even if that was a pre-pandemic aim anyway) and shrugged off the possibility of cautiously but humanitarianly disembarking cruise-ships into quarantine accomodation (rather than letting them sit offshore longer, allowing any extant infections to reach more of the previously untouched) it had probably zero effect upon the European vectoring-inwards that eventually made it too late to stop even with a full-globe 'only the most essential* of travel' allowance.  It's an open secret that places International travellers were likely to most immediately arrive at/return to were highly correlated with blue-voting, so not a priority to someone who wanted the red-voting fly-overs/boondocks/etc to have the edge.

And yet Fauci is to blame?  I mean, there were precious few places (and therefore people in charge) who hit the proper tone right at the very start. Including making sure that a public not yet significantly exposed was not causing supply problems to prevent front-line medical staff to obtain enough self-protecting masks (before manufacturing geared up to increase the supply of the other-protecting masks which were to become more useful in the wider population). I'd forgive his privately wishing that everyone would wear masks right at the start but decided not to press it because it would be unachievable (both physically, politically and societally) and tried to concentrate on more doable precautions/more necessary mask-candidates.


Above all, though, I think you read that article and understood it to be a condemnation of Fauci. When I read it as a condemnation of how he was briefed against. Alleged errors, being raised by the Whitehouse. Criticism of how little information he could give when there was little information to give. The highlighting of his more non-alarming words in preference to the realistic concerns he also raised but were conveniently ignored. (To paraphrase a stretch of two or three paragraphs that you must not have read/understood, perhaps sticking only to your limited interpretation of the bullet-points.)


Yes, I read the article that you posted. I re-read it before I replied, twisting my mind to read it 'your' way and still doubting you could have honestly read it as you propose. I read it yet again just now, just in case it's a trick page with a Randomised Markov Chain behind it, but the words are the same and my impression of its meaning continues to be that it is a fact-check of how Fauci's views have been falsely represented, not of how Fauci's words were in themselves false.

(Incomplete, especially early on; Uncertain, when there was less information; Hedged and possibly too timid, at times when faced with sharing the stage with the President Who Could Not Tell A Coherent Truth; Nothing that seems notably worsened what would have happened, had Clarence been showing him his 'George Bailey' alternative.)

And that I felt the need to explain this, at length, is as annoying to me as it probably is to you (but for different reasons, also different still to the annoyance of all the other readers who don't want this to be an annexed thread to the AmeriPol one).


* Anyone rich enough, anyone with business interests, enough sports team movements to keep people entertained, quite a few reporters could apparently travel in and out of the US, and just had to follow honour-system quarantining procedures, at various times, according to the sometimes nuanced Source-Destination country matrix of requirements currently in for e.
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