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[martinuzz]

No, all other corona measures fall under a parliament approved corona law. The night curfew was an 'emergency decree' (which was not sent to parliament and senate for approval). The judge ruled that there are no valid grounds for an emergency decree which goes so fundamentally against the constitutional rights of the population.

In other words, the government will need to go back to parliament with a new law and see if they get that approved, if they want a curfew.

[martinuzz]

How on earth does political manipulation of corona scientists by the German government relate to people willingly banging AIDS patients without a condom?

I may have quoted the wrong thing. One of them was about people trying to get sick and spread the disease (Corona).

I haven't heard of that one yet, and didn't post anything like that.

[martinuzz]

The UK government has given permission to infect volunteers with corona to test how much virus particles are needed to become ill, to study the effect on the immunesystem, to study how the disease spreads and to study the disease in general.

There will be a mximum of 90 volunteers between ages 18 and 30 years participating in the trials.


Damn, those are either very brave souls, or the researchers got their 'volunteers' from easily gullibe mentally retarded people.
I sure hope none of them dies or becomes crippled for life.


Don't think that would be possible over here. Don't think it's legally allowed to infect healthy people with a potentially lethal disease even if they volunteer. I think volunteering for such a thing will get you a few years of mandatory psychiatric evaluation.
And on the other side of the spectrum, I don't see a medic cooperating with such a trial without losing his or her medical license before the medical disciplinary board.

[wierd]

How does this clear an ethics panel?

How?

[martinuzz]

Exactly my question. If any of them dies or gets crippled I think the researchers are going to see court and prison even with their government permission.

What happened to primum non nocere? Okay, the scientist might not be under hipporatic oath, but any doctors that assist them are.

[Starver]

It's not unknown to do this kind of thing, and was always (once it became A Thing) on the cards for Covid, as the urgency for data became clear.

In fact, the need to do so probably fell once you had much more in-the-wild for 'passively challenged' trials to work against - but then you have people running around maybe-vaccinated/maybe-not in the 'challenge of Real Life' and risking the desired exposure without medics continually monitoring them and immediately treating anybody (of either fortune) who gets infected enough to be of concern.


It's a big ask. It has ethics questions, yes. But it may be considered "the worst system apart from all the others" in many ways. Presuming it involves true well-informed volunteers, of course.

[ChairmanPoo]

Good! I volunteer Starver, wierd, martinuzz and Duuvian for the study.

Someone will be in contact shortly to sneeze on your face

[martinuzz]

New legal punishment for breaking corona laws: possibly lethal injection. In the name of !!SCIENCE!!

[wierd]

Good! I volunteer Starver, wierd, martinuzz and Duuvian for the study.

Someone will be in contact shortly to sneeze on your face

I am disqualified, unless you are looking for a single datapoint for moderna vaccine efficacy.

[Frumple]

I mean... if you're at the point you're deliberately infecting people with a plague, you'll probably take what you can get :V

[Starver]

I might have considered it in the earlier period actually, or even the wild-challenged trials, except that I was forming a support-bubble with someone (not long out of hospital for an injury, mere weeks before the whole thing blew up) which meant I wasn't really at liberty to put myself in either situation. Still am, in fact, but more for sanity reasons than physiological ones.

(Also, I was nowhere near the Oxford/wherever trial catchments, so my application would never have been seriously taken up.)

With a clearly low case-mortality (even for my age) but high R₀, you end up with a higher population mortality than a high CM/low R disease. I'd have prefered (would still prefer) guaranteed monitoring with guaranteed immediate exposure over what is almost guaranteed future exposure if we are still wishy-washy with facts and treatments for too long.

I have never had a test (nor my support-bubbler, and neither having sufficient cause to book one) and for all I know we've both been silent-but-deadly after one random public exposure in a supermarket trip/whatever and thenceforth put others at risk in future supermarket queues. I'd have much better peace of mind if I'd been in a Phase III situation (or pre-screened and rejected), and only have to worry about silent reinfection chances than whether or not I'm still truly unexposed. (I suspect it's also this sort of thing, but far more misguidedly applied, that drives the Covid Party types - with either known or unknown potential 'givers' present - but I'm unsocial enough to not have any need to let my hair (and guard) down in that sort of ad hoc manner.)

[Iduno]

https://twitter.com/BMarchetich/status/1361883813693902851

[ChairmanPoo]

Bad risk assessment starver. We know far more about managing covid pneumonia now than we did a year ago. Outcomes are better in part because of that.

[Starver]

I can't tell what exactly is being said there (without playing the video), given the variously opposing mix of replies not being so clearly supporting or challenging the OP at times (might be bickering amongst themselves).

I'm guessing he said children have nothing to worry about, though? Without qualifying, because it's complicated, so not. But context could he otherwise.


Talking of children, a few days old now but vaccine trials for children, vs. a meningitis jab as control.

@Chairman: Not sure that's countering me. Should I have not considered being in a trial at the beginning, you mean?

[ChairmanPoo]

It counters "being exposed early" being better than "being exposed latter" regardless of the "controledness" of the exposure.

Also: A trial? Sure. A challenge trial? Eh..

Not that there were any challenge trials, anyway. Idk if the British are going ahead with this after all, but if so it will be a first for covid, I think