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[ChairmanPoo]

New protocol states that epipens must be present in the vaccination area. Seems fair.

[Starver]

It is (once identified as possibly useful, however rarely so) a pretty much trivial precaution given their trivial availability. Probably as necessary as a Fluffy Blue Security Blanket (Monsters, Under The Bed, Protection From) for 99.99...% of people, but not a game-stopper to have to make available.

By the time I get asked to partake (indirectly, as I'm too low on the 'list' to be actively called in) it'll probable not even be the BioNTec thing, perhaps the Moderna, likely (as of current info) the AstraZeneca, but by then we'll surely have other candidates like Janssen, Novavax or Valneva (if not Moscow's Gamaleya or any of Beijing's various ones like they're also giving to the UAE). If anyone here is much higher priority than me, I wouldn't suggest that this is concerningly low data, as being a higher priority already means it's more important they offset the risks of the unmitigated Covid first.

[ChairmanPoo]

Tbh the AZ has a loong way to go. If it goes at all.

Their 90%-70% efficacy claim is spurious because the former comes from a subgroup analysis (which back in med school was the kind of thing our epidemiology teacher underlined as a mistake*) and the later comes from averaging the real 62% result with the spurious subgroup analysis (which doesn't make any sense).


*basically the problem is that in any study if you're willing to narrow it down enough you'll always find some subgroup that  seems to achieve the effect you want, by random chance. But selling this as a real result is little better than drawing a target over a random cluster of shots. What you need to do instead is design a new trial aiming to prove the results that subgroup seemed to achieve.... which is EXACTLY  what AZ did after the bombastic announcement of the efficacy of their vaccine.

Tbh if we had nothing else the 62% would be a "better than nothing" result. It's not a failure per se. Its just that at least at this point the others seem better...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The US has entered fully into the Dark Winter. 107k hospitalized. 3k dead yesterday. ICU capacity maxing out all over the place.

Save yourselves.

[wierd]

Indeed *IGNORE THE HOLIDAY MACHINE. STAY HOME*

[martinuzz]

You guys really need nation-wide policies right now.
Once you ICUs are full, you are in for hell on earth.

We got close over here to the same thing happening, but we managed to flatten the curve just in time.
What we needed to do for that:

- Work from home unless that is utterly impossible.
- Close the airports.
- Close the schools and daycare, children stay home, period.  Employers are forced by law to not fire people that have to stay home to watch the kids.  (Over here businesses that fired people could not apply for government support)

- Close the 'contact professions' like hairdressers, nail saloons, fysiotherapy etc.
- Close gyms / sportschools.
- Close theatres / musea / other public places.
- Close the bars/pubs/restaurants.
- Close the churches, mosques, synagogues and various other places of worship.
- Restrict public transportation to take less people per train / bus so people can social distance.

- Disallow visitors on weddings and funerals.

- If that isn't enough, you can also still close all retail except supermarkets. We didn't need to do that here though.

Note that this requires the government to spend many billions on compensation for businesses and employees.  Over here, the general rule is that companies get 90% of their wages refunded by the government as long as they can show their earnings are down by a certain percentage (and they don't fire people).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Well, that sounds all well and good, but what actually happened is that SCOTUS confirmed the religious freedom to be a plaguerat.

Hence, save yourselves. Wider society in America isn't going to respond any more than it has. I'm just glad I live under a Democratic governor, at least until SCOTUS inevitably nullifies all his public health measures too.

On the bright side, there's almost no public transportation to be shut down in the first place.

[martinuzz]

Is a problem here too.  While during the first lockdown, the churches were advised to not let visitors in, it is legally impossible to decree it.
Secularism works both ways.  Freedom of religious convention yadda yadda.

We are in a second lockdown now, and our prime minister specifically stated that places of worship are exempt from group size restrictions and face masks.

Oh the world would be such a better place if we could get rid of religions... Where is Stalin when we need him  /s

Our other mistake right now is that the government decided not to close the schools.  With the first lockdown, we went from nearly completely full ICUs to zero people on ICU in about a month.  Right now, after nearly two months of lockdown, the curve isn't flattening as fast as we'd like and there's still about 50% ICU capacity used for corona patients.

[Bumber]

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-circulating-italy-earlier-thought.html
Potential COVID antibodies found in blood samples taken in Italy back in September 2019. For the USA, a different study found some in blood donations taken in December 2019.


Hoping to never hear the word "hydroxychloroquine" again? Too bad. This study is claiming use of HCQ decreased rate of hospitalization by 84%.

[Starver]

Tbh if we had nothing else the 62% would be a "better than nothing" result. It's not a failure per se. Its just that at least at this point the others seem better...

I give it a chance to be 'my' dose, at some point between now and this time next year, for two main reasons:

• Those coldchain issues are less intensive than the BNT/etc, an issue we identified early on[1]
• The vastly higher number of doses already pre-paid for by the UK government[2] which, in light of other political dealings, is likely to send us down an 'in for a penny, in for a pound' route even if it's not the ideal resolution.

But that's just my mental musings on the current situation. I'm quite sure that by the time this resolves unto my lowly priority much of my above reasoning will be overturned, even without your quite reasonable additional clinical clincher which I accept.


(Interestingly, as well, there has been state-sponsored (<-highly suspected to be that, at least) hacking of the Pfizer study info as submitted onto (I think it was) the EMA servers, recently reported. Added to other incidents like the earlier spearphishing attack on worldwide coldchain companies and the prior invasion of data in various vaccine developers at an early stage, I suspect that there may be concerns about all kinds of things from unlevel playing-fields during the initial rush to develop to future possible selective data-dumps aimed at skewing public opinion. I'm far more sure that this will emerge as 'a thing' than any particular manufacturer will be behind my own shot in the arm, if I ever get one... )


[1] I think Gamaleya needs only fridge tech, in its portable form, but ruling that out for obvious reasons.
[2] Also it's a Oxford Uni, thing whether that drove that initial decision to pre-fund that way or will take part in the final national decision.

[Iduno]

You guys really need nation-wide policies right now.
Once you ICUs are full, you are in for hell on earth.

I'm in one of the worst parts of the US, and hospitals have been at capacity for a while now, which means new patients from Thanksgiving can wait in line for someone to die or recover enough to get kicked out so they can be seen.

I don't think people realize that means that any health problem that won't kill you today won't get addressed. Things like cancer, broken bones, etc. won't get you in to see a doctor when the hospital is full. Just walk it off. Not to mention mental health and chronic pain issues. And numbers are going to get worse at the end of the month.

[ChairmanPoo]

BTW: In my hospital ICU is now almost full, covid inpats have soared to 12
Word is that itīs due to people coming back for Xmas
around 50.000 are expected. So cases grow.
Also Ireland has less covid than most of Europe but on the flip side it doesnt take much to collapse Irish ICUs

[Vector]

Yeah. I'm back to a shelter-in-place order here. Holidays are canceled and it looks like I'm going to have at least a month and a half with zero in-person social contact (except groceries).

Be strong, everyone.

[Frumple]

Best of luck to you. Wish my local stuff had the sense to be following similar restrictions, but... yeah. Rural florida, at least we're managing to keep the library patrons wearing masks without someone trying to shoot us.

... also wish like hell zero in-person contact outside of the other folks living with me was an option that didn't also involve being homeless. If the ones letting me stay here hadn't said they'd kick me out if I quit work I would have apologized to my boss and ditched months ago, before my local area spiked to the highest rates it's seen this year

[Frumple]

I've seen chatter from some, and yeah, they were fucking exhausted about six months ago. Shit only sorta' let up after the initial surge, many of them haven't really had much of a break this entire goddamn time.

Lot are hanging in there, but I can just about guarantee you when the plague actually lets up you're going to see massive expression of burnout; people fleeing the professions involved, spikes in suicide rates (iirc already showing ), and so on. It's already ugly as hell, and relief ain't for a long time yet.