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[ChairmanPoo]

If the chemo is for (or incidentally harms) the immune system, then perhaps the risk must be weighed up between continuing to immuno-compromise the patient (in an effort to keep on treating for the original condition) or hold off on that (in order to allow them a better chance of fighting off any Covid). And if that choice seems awful to make, either method can be riskier if you do it on merely a heavy assumption that suspected-Covid is/isn't real-Covid. So you make damn sure you know (while ideally holding off the chemo for a few days at most) before making the decision to continue/discontinue/replace the treatment.

It´s not an awful choice, it´s a very common no-brainer. I use *a lot* of chemo. In most scenarios I´d not treat someone with any moderatedly serious active infections. But we´re talking about a potential contact at most here, not someone who´s symptomatic of anything.

[Starver]

"Basically bedridden, sick with 'flu', only it's not flu." sounds symptomatic, whatever it is, and we don't yet know it's not what this thread is all about.

If I hadn't been generally concerned about mother, I probably would have wished for Greiger to get well soon as well. As indeed I do, let me now say.

But as a definitely symptomatic-of-something contact (groceries-picker-uperer, at a minimum), the only 'good' news is that risk-group mom isn't showing any not-flu symptoms[1]. Not good enough for a health-critical decision, but room for optimism in this otherwise disinterested observer.


BTW, right now I've got a tricky problem to work out. Scottish policy is basically no visitors ("social visits") in private homes, but England allows bubbling of two households (of limited numbers). And I'm trying to work out how that applies to an extended car journey that I may be taking, with someone not of my household, in two weeks' time - planned before the relockdown - that actually crosses the English/Scottish border. If it was public transport, it'd be allowed (masked and in wider separated seating) and we were going to be doing it as a bubblish thing (going by stricter rules than then required to follow). OTOH, we're "outdoors", technically (too early to tell if we can keep the windows open) and not facing each other so could perhaps have worked with the 1+m distancing. We should be safer (combined) than any other form of travel other than actual cycling from place to place, but "the rules" look like they need a bit of flexing to squeeze into.

Could just declare ourselves a 'travelling' household, for the duration. (Not too much of a problem to requarantine ourselves seperately at journey's end, even if one home nation puts the other home nation on its "dangerous point-of-origin" list. So long as they don't re-erect Hadrian's or Antonine walls to prevent all movement.). But two weeks is a long time, potentially, and plans may well change without my needing to actively worry about these things.



[1] Over-a-week since presumed infection, two days since became ill. Therefore five+ days to get laid low by the whateverness. If it's jumped again, it could have done two, three, four days ago, assuming constant/daily contact, so I'd stick my neck to say it either hasn't happened or it did and actually got nowhere for whatever reason. But far too many guesses in there, so don't take this as a medical opinion (IANADoctor!), this was just how I first worked it out in my head.

[hector13]

Beeb article on Scottish restrictions.

Worst case, it says she advises against car travel with mixed households, so you should be alright if you’re not planning on visiting private homes, though you’re allowed in private gardens up to 6 people from two different households, so one of you will have to stay in the car if you do that.

[Iduno]

And an analogy I used the other day (which was quicker to explain in the context of that moment) about lockdowns was like being in a car going down a steep hill. You suddenly notice sheep on and by the road ahead, slam on the brakes (jolting the passengers, things fly off the parcel-shelf; basically disruptive to all concerned) before realising they're actually further off than you realised (any that you did avoid hitting are just part of a larger flock). So you ease off on the brakes (you're still on the hill, so you're naturally speeding up), and someone in the back seat is complaining about the lost time so you might even step heavier on the gas. But there are still sheep on the road and you're still heading towards them, and you're now back to recklessly anti-ovine speeds again. Anyone complaining that putting the brakes in the first time just did more harm than good isn't honestly thinking through what would have happened if there were no brakes at all, etc.

You can also compare countries who willingly followed the rules to those who did not. Areas that tried to avoid getting sick were able to get back on track in a few months. Areas that did not try are having economic problems in 6 months, with no end in sight. And with current vaccines being notably less than 100% (I've seen as low as 50%) effective, may never recover.

Speaking of not recovering, I know 2 people who are still sick 4-5 months after they no longer show symptoms. One has been tested and no longer has enough antibodies to get a positive on an antibody test. Both were in great shape (exercise an hour or more per day) and early 40s, and can't manage a normal amount of exertion anymore.

[ChairmanPoo]

"Basically bedridden, sick with 'flu', only it's not flu." sounds symptomatic, whatever it is, and we don't yet know it's not what this thread is all about.

That's Greiger, not his mother.
I'd do my best not to delay a contact, I'd probably do a pcr beforehamd though.

[Starver]

"Basically bedridden, sick with 'flu', only it's not flu." sounds symptomatic, whatever it is, and we don't yet know it's not what this thread is all about.

That's Greiger, not his mother.
I'd do my best not to delay a contact, I'd probably do a pcr beforehamd though.

Ok, it seems I misread your "(having) a potential contact at most here, not someone who´s symptomatic of anything" as being Greiger (who, by direct association, complicates his mother's situation), whereas you meant his mother, re: G.

From the limited information, I was explaining the hyperprecautionary nature of the roadblock.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But, yes, "someone with any moderately serious infection" would be critically appraised for immediate concern in all clinical settings (a mixture of their own health and that of others). The factoring in of "someone (else) who is merely a potential contact (of the original someone)" should be taken into account with more detail than we have here but might be easily dismissed after a quick briefing. If that caused red-flags in original-someone's treatment schedule, it might have swung on answers we don't know to questions we didn't hear.

(It could also have been due to misunderstandings, untoward pressures from 'above', inexpert assessments, ...)

And I don't know things like how aggressive a treatment this needs to be (perhaps an occasional month's respite is perfectly allowable, or even mandated) in a real-life situation being read by one who is directly concerned. I know little about the case, and I don't have the training/experience you do.  I'm in the uncomfortable position of applying increasingly unqualified speculation to explain my original thoughts on possibly why there was an issue to be told about.

(Like, on somewhat safer and far distant ground, "why did the ancients build Stonehenge?". They (or their friendly fleet of UFOs) clearly did, and "they shouldn't have" isn't a valid answer by itself.)

[scriver]

Sweden reported a rise in cases again the other day for the first time in a long time. One can hope it's happenstance but it's worrying.

Hopefully it will make the department's tighten measures again. Loosening measures because it's finally doing better is nonsensical and I'm 100% they know this but are pressured by politicians and interest groups.

Maybe we'll even get an endorsement of masks for people who feel well.

[Starver]

On masks, I've been seeing a rise of filtration masks on shoppers/etc (or so I assume, from the little plastic thing embedded in them, intended to be an outwardly-one-way valve) against the more-to-protect-other-people surgical-style coverings (disposable, reusable or ad-hoc).

And with all the conversations about face-coverings sending jets of deadly, deadly breath around the edges and to a potentially greater distance, those plastic valves probably do a lot to project an (unknowingly?) infective person's breath out there in a long-lobe of its own.

Still, if you spot them, generally on one side of the face-cup, you can move to be more on the other-side.

[hector13]

Yeah they filter air on the way in, but not the way out.

I notice an increasing number of people failing to understand respiration in general by wearing a mask below their nose.

[ChairmanPoo]

I kind of question that they don't prevent spread at all, the valve ones, I mean. If you think about it, its not like surgical masks are airtight.

I suspect the valved ones while filtering less than a valveless ffp probably do stop a lot of crap going out.

[Jopax]

Yeah they filter air on the way in, but not the way out.

I notice an increasing number of people failing to understand respiration in general by wearing a mask below their nose.

On the plus side, calling someone a literal mouth breather has never been accurate on so many accounts before.

[Starver]

I kind of question that they don't prevent spread at all, the valve ones, I mean. If you think about it, its not like surgical masks are airtight.

Aye, hence the mention of side-leaks in the 'surgical' style (and also why the "recycled CO₂" crowd are as wrong as the "zomething the size of a virus floats freely through cloth anyway" ones; paradoxically, seeming to be the exact same anti-mask types).

I suspect the valved ones while filtering less than a valveless ffp probably do stop a lot of crap going out.

But if moulded better to cup the face and the valve is meant to specifically unimpede exhalation, it'd be more of a geyser of breath than a general upwelling of water in a hot spring. As it were.

But mostly it subverts the "help others" philosophy of a face-nappy(/diaper). Intentionally or otherwise.


I've stopped mentioning to people "it looks like your mask has slipped, I can see your nose". The most polite reply I get tends to be something about it being too loose round the ears and always slipping.

Myself, with a limited beard[1], I know there's routes my breath can go around my mask (possibly inwards too), though with a certain follicular-filtering. Probably better than if I were clean-shaven, with plenty of surface for any organically contaminated vapour to adhere to as the air flows past.

[1] Occasionally sculptured, but not specifically to the 'maskprint' like a facial bikini-wax. Just in the manner as I always had done, beforehand, when the non-beard stubble starts to look a little too much like just more beard.

[Greiger]

Thanks for the concern folks been getting lots of sleep.  No test results yet, symptoms evolved a bit, no longer super sleepy at all times and instead have a persistent cough. Fever is down.  Most food is tasteless except water which tastes like either pure chlorine if from the tap or liquid plastic if from a bottle. Limbs always feel like I've just sprinted 2 miles.

Mom's still doing fine, I'm wearing my mask around the house and she puts on hers whenever I come out into the rest of the house.  She has a minor cough but she does normally so we're not sure if that's anything new.

I'll keep y'all posted!

[McTraveller]

Thanks for the concern folks been getting lots of sleep.  No test results yet, symptoms evolved a bit, no longer super sleepy at all times and instead have a persistent cough. Fever is down.  Most food is tasteless except water which tastes like either pure chlorine if from the tap or liquid plastic if from a bottle. Limbs always feel like I've just sprinted 2 miles.

Mom's still doing fine, I'm wearing my mask around the house and she puts on hers whenever I come out into the rest of the house.  She has a minor cough but she does normally so we're not sure if that's anything new.

I'll keep y'all posted!

Best wishes for your family... and keep watching the timing.  When my parents were exposed, they were about 10 days from exposure to symptoms, and about 12 days to really feeling ill.  That pesky long incubation period.

On the positive side: from that same exposure, 2 other family members had zero symptoms.  So contact alone is necessary, but not sufficient, for disease.

[delphonso]

Some schools are sending students home for any covid symptoms for two weeks or more. Wisconsin parents are complaining about that being too extreme, unable to understand that the virus is worse than the flu and also has no current cure. The real issue being that they reopened schools way too early, and now have to be the front line of stopping virus spread.

Oh, and the Republicans say that this behavior means the schools/Dems don't care about children at all.