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[Silverwing235]

Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here, due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.

[lethosor]

Do the workshop templates get updated automatically from the raws? The craftsdwarf workshop has two new products (dice, altar) that should be added. I haven't found a way to edit the template so I assume it parses the information from somewhere else.

Raws are stored in an extension, which needs to be updated. I'll try to do that today - thanks for the reminder.

[Bumber]

Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here, due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.

The behavior difference between 0.47.01 and prior versions should probably be noted.

[Silverwing235]

Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here, due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.

The behavior difference between 0.47.01 and prior versions should probably be noted.

To be precise, I was trying to note the two or so spheres of relevance to them, but blanked on the second. The (demon, sphere) pages are also relevant, IIRC.

[Pillbo]

Just putting a notice up under 'needs further development' here, due to having run somewhat short on recall regarding specifics.

The behavior difference between 0.47.01 and prior versions should probably be noted.

There are a lot of changes from 44.12 to 47.01 that don't warrant a new namespace but I wonder if the 44.12 pages should be archived and kept as separate pages?  Would that be a ton a work lethosor?

Right now the wiki shows the versions as v0.47.01 · v0.34 · v0.31 · v0.28 · v0.23, but imo players will be using 44.12 for a while. Until  several versions of bug fixes come out and there is a stable LNP I don't think the bulk of causal players will switch to 47.01 for much longer than a quick investigation. If all the wiki pages update for how things exist in 44.12 I think it will be a pain in a lot of asses.

[lethosor]

There are a lot of changes from 44.12 to 47.01 that don't warrant a new namespace but I wonder if the 44.12 pages should be archived and kept as separate pages?  Would that be a ton a work lethosor?

Separate namespaces are how we keep older versions of pages. Granted, there are other ways to do it too (e.g. subpages), but namespaces are the cleanest solution we've come up with. Doing a migration like that is non-trivial, and would rapidly become more complicated as people make more changes to DF2014 pages.

Right now the wiki shows the versions as v0.47.01 · v0.34 · v0.31 · v0.28 · v0.23, but imo players will be using 44.12 for a while. Until  several versions of bug fixes come out and there is a stable LNP I don't think the bulk of causal players will switch to 47.01 for much longer than a quick investigation. If all the wiki pages update for how things exist in 44.12 I think it will be a pain in a lot of asses.

The same could have been said about 0.43 and 0.42. I don't really disagree, but I'd like to be consistent, and we didn't make new namespaces for those even though the same argument applies. (Basically, people are able to migrate from 0.44 to 0.47, but weren't able to migrate from 0.34 to 0.40, or 0.31 to 0.34.)

[Pillbo]

The same could have been said about 0.43 and 0.42. I don't really disagree, but I'd like to be consistent, and we didn't make new namespaces for those even though the same argument applies. (Basically, people are able to migrate from 0.44 to 0.47, but weren't able to migrate from 0.34 to 0.40, or 0.31 to 0.34.)

I would have made the same argument for .43 and .42 if I was here to make it. I understand why the namespace exists, but in a game on it's fifth version since .34 it makes more sense to me to make a wiki page based on stable version not namespace. I saw someone mention they play .42 the other day, it'd be nice if they could see the wiki data from that version when looking something up, but not much will work the same in .47.

But whatever, I'm not interested in crusading for some huge change. I do think if we're bundling all those versions together that we should include info (where changes apply) from each stable version on a page. For example stress, aquifers, boogeymen, etc info from 44.12 should stick around on the page in a clearly labeled section for that version.

[lethosor]

it makes more sense to me to make a wiki page based on stable version not namespace

What do you mean by this? There are 5 namespaces on the wiki, corresponding to 5 major DF versions: DF2014, v0.34, v0.31, 40d, and 23a. That's how information is split up between major versions; are you picturing using something else instead of namespaces to do this?

I saw someone mention they play .42 the other day, it'd be nice if they could see the wiki data from that version when looking something up, but not much will work the same in .47.

But whatever, I'm not interested in crusading for some huge change. I do think if we're bundling all those versions together that we should include info (where changes apply) from each stable version on a page. For example stress, aquifers, boogeymen, etc info from 44.12 should stick around on the page in a clearly labeled section for that version.

There are some templates that might be useful:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Template:New_in
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Template:Removed_feature

Using these a lot can get messy, though. I haven't been following DF changes closely; if there are a lot of major changes, a new namespace may be worthwhile. It would take some work to get the migration scripts working again, though.

[Pillbo]

it makes more sense to me to make a wiki page based on stable version not namespace

What do you mean by this? There are 5 namespaces on the wiki, corresponding to 5 major DF versions: DF2014, v0.34, v0.31, 40d, and 23a. That's how information is split up between major versions; are you picturing using something else instead of namespaces to do this?

What I meant was that there are 5 stable versions since .34 in 2012 (40.24, 42.06, 43.05, 44.12, 47.xx)  I just think it would have made more sense to use those version numbers (v.40, v.42, etc) as namespaces instead of bundling by save comparability. Because the game changes a lot even if saves are comparable. I just didn't word it well.

It would also be interesting to have it as an archive of how the game has changed over time. But like I said, I'm also not interested in making a mountain of work and in most cases it's overkill. 

[feelotraveller]

So double the size/work of the Wiki for the 0.001% of players using minor versions?  I wouldn't think that's a great allocation of resources (human or server).  To be honest prior to 47 being released about 99% of people would have been playing 44.12 and perhaps 1% combined for 44.09 (since 44.12 was so badly balanced) and 34.11.  Other versions would be played less than once in a blue moon, and would be done by people with knowledge of what and why. 

Things will be somewhat split between 44.12 and 47.xx until the latter stabilizes and games started in 44.12 get wrapped up by those who do not wish to migrate a save.  But that is a short term transition phase.  Barring massive problems with 47 just about no-one will be playing 44.xx in a years time.

My positive contribution on namespaces would be to suggest that whenever the next namespace gets added it should not be coined after a year.  New players seeing 2014 may think that the information/version is very out of date in 2020 - not that anyone thought it would end up like this.  Rather some thematic name -  steam (or boiler...) or MM (for myth and magic) or Urist (suggesting the end of an era) or...  Just a suggestion that might pay off in 10 or 20 years. 

[Pillbo]

So double the size/work of the Wiki for the 0.001% of players using minor versions? I wouldn't think that's a great allocation of resources (human or server).

It would be more work to retroactively create pages for the old versions now but it shouldn't be that much extra work when new namespaces are created. I doubt the entire wiki is recreated by users when a save-breaking update comes. I'd guess those pages take in the history and edits from the previous namespace's version of the article. It would also make sense if you could load the same article files in different namespaces, for instance if an article like Worms has no change from version to version.

All the articles were already created for all previous versions and the entire history of a wiki is saved and viewable, so I don't see how it would be any extra server size or work to have them more easily accessable. You could make a similar argument about the articles for v.23 still being easily accessed in a namespace.  Less players are using v.23 than v.42 but I'd still prefer v.23 is always kept there for documenting the changes over time.

Like I said, it's not worth making a big deal out of now. But personally, I would like to be able to see more previous versions in the wiki for curiosities sake.

[KillerClowns]

Anyone got dibs on starting the "Experiment" page for the wiki? I'm using compressed saves, so I don't have sample RAWs, which would seem useful, but I might at least set up a stub with a brief explanation on what those wacky names in the Adventurer Mode start screen are.

[Pillbo]

Anyone got dibs on starting the "Experiment" page for the wiki? I'm using compressed saves, so I don't have sample RAWs, which would seem useful, but I might at least set up a stub with a brief explanation on what those wacky names in the Adventurer Mode start screen are.

Sounds like you're the perfect person to get it started!

[KillerClowns]

Someone beat me to it by the time I got home.

I did, however, take time to extract some sample RAWs and do (minimal, initial) clean-up on them. It might be worth posting them, as is done for angels, as examples of the commonalities in experiments. Or at least, it provides some idea of what is universal among experiments.

[voliol]

Ah, sorry, I was the one who did it, but more info is really needed. Just put up your raws and everything's going up milhouse for the wiki.