The census is WIFOM.
Right now, with no kills or anything to back it up? The census is indeed WIFOM. I just wanted it out so it won't get lost if I die or something.
Don't get me wrong, dumping the census in the thread is 400% the correct action.
The trap is that people do nothing but discuss it, but we've avoided that so we're pretty well in the clear.
Superdorf: By doing this you have made yourself a potential mafia target, if you are town-aligned, as the mafia will not want this information to be available to the player base. Isn't this... a bit risky? Valuable yes, but potentially risky. Of course if you were mafia you would have nothing to fear.
?
If Superdorf is nightkilled, it confirms the results of the census for town.
Scum, knowing that Superdorf is town and more than one player's ability, are in a much better position to confirm and use the census right now. A Superdorf flip is only good for the town, alignment notwithstanding.
I suspect the fact that TricMagic mentioned other players targeting him is a slip of some kind.
Yeah, I don't like it one bit.
Tric's the kind of guy to legit real post something like that as paranoid vet dopple without a hint of irony.
I'm curious how many of you think my play style is different than what I've previously displayed.
I, uh, never payed enough attention to your playstyle to be able to answer this.
You've never gotten me spooked or engaged enough to have to do a meta reading or form one during a game.
dolores: Generally speaking, how transparent should a town player strive to be in action and motivation? Conversely, in what situations might a townie reasonably employ gambits, secret ploys, and the like?
Play 100% transparently
There's no converse here, run gambits, secret ploys, etc. as town without a second thought
Hypocrisy is a towntell. The problem with most 'gambits' as town is you waste time that could be spent scumhunting, and you draw hostile day attention. I'm too cute to lynch, so that second part is usually a benefit (there's no combination of weaker and stronger players I feel that I couldn't mind control into, if not voting with me, not voting me, over a 72hr period), but if you can't convert a short-term hostility into a failed lynch attempt and subsequent aura of townyness and foundations made of failed arguments and discarded evidence, you're screwing over the town by leading a lynch on a (the only) confirmed townie: yourself.
The difference between scum and town is that town need the lynch to win the game, so anything town does is ultimately going to be about pointing the lynch in the right direction.
Like, I'm a miller, right? I'm obviously not, and I haven't checked if millers can exist, and I won't. Now, that tells you about
my role (it doesn't interact with millers), although I could be fronting. The point is, though, that I can tell this like one hundred thousand times and it doesn't matter, because you glance over it and move on, and if a cop inspects me and gets an innocent result, why should I care? If there's some convuluted list of targeting roles and it's actually worth claiming that I don't detect as scum (to use as the basis to lynch another player, who presumably does), then of course I'll contradict my claim.
I have a track record of fullclaiming in the first 48hrs of D2, like, 90% of the time. Honestly, even as scum. That's because I don't think it matters. A confirmed townie who can day-inspect the role and alignment of every player D1 is stronger than any role that actually exists, and that's the upper limit of a good daygame. I also have a track record of fakeclaiming almost every D1. That's because I don't think it matters. Whether or not I
play like a cop has infinitely more bearing on whether or not I am likely to be a cop than any claim. Sure, a lot of players softclaim D1 as cops, and that's coplike for them. It's also suboptimal, generally, in my opinion.
Players can't lynch you if you're town and play 100% transparently and make an earnest effort, because no matter how badly you do, you'll come across as town to anyone able to make the reads happen. If you're 100% transparent, all you need is content and they're in the best position to produce the reads.
Playing authentically is a cheat because scum can't do it the same way, and that means that if everyone in town did that and only that, no matter how bad their reads, it would only require a group of observant and charismatic townies to convince as many of the town as there are scum to vote with them to win the game.
This is why I say I'm bad at scum, because I don't think there is counterplay for this. You can try to mire the game in bullshit, but unless you're substantially better than the other players in the game, you'll always come out the most suspicious from it.
The problem of course being that if you are town and you survive till the next day, you can census again and reveal even more information to town. With every death that occurs the likelihood of your role being confirmed or at least made more likely to be true increases as the death information may match your census information. Why would the mafia care if your death reveals the truth of your information when you're going to be releasing even more information over time? If you are a town player and being truthful you've made yourself an attractive target towards mafia, simply for the sake of cutting off your flow of information.
This is dumb. The information isn't, like, alignment inspects that the scum already know. Scum get just as much out of the expanded list as we do.
I've got a 1000x more important role. I can tell you that straight up. If scum shoot at Superdorf, they can't shoot at me. (Yes, scum, that's WIFOM. But only for you, so go get drunk in scumchat and leave it out of the thread if you don't want to be called out for it.) This is generalizable.
If you are not killed by Day 2, my suspicion would be either that you are mafia, you correctly planned for a town player to protect you, or the scum are leaving you alive as a risky gambit.
There's no risk to this gambit. What's the worst that's going to happen, scum kill someone that's close to a vanilla townie? That's the best case scenario for N1. Why does this worry you?
I also find FallacyofUrist trustworthy due to the many questions.
What's wrong with asking lots of questions? How else are you going to get information during the day, and find and lynch the scum?
The only solid bit of info that this gives towards alignment is there might be an SK because they're guaranteed a kill ability of some sort and there's three kill abilities.
SK is 11+ players, there's no sk. I was thinking the same thing, though.
I voted ICT to draw attention to what I was saying to them, which was that "I didn't like the thing he did as scum that one time." but I take that pretty seriously. If you want to grab someone's attention, you vote them.
The problem is that you're not doing anything to give information about ICT's (and kinda your, and my, and anyone else in the conversation's) alignment. You're also drawing attention to this conversation. You're claiming that's a nulltell, and I'd like the believe that it is, but it's not because it's the same as filling the thread with WIFOM or any other useless thing and drawing attention to it. If you were
really town and
really wanted to win, you wouldn't do it because it would detract from that goal, even if it was important to you (but less important than the game). If you aren't town, and
really want to win, you're still going to do it because it's actually in line with your goals. It's dumb, and it doesn't connect to the rest of the game, and I'd hate to make a case around it. But it's unambiguously a scumtell.
How are you planning on determining ICT's alignment? How will you recover from the fact that there's no dialogue between the three of us that's actually relevant to the game beyond a pinch of stray RVS?
I'm the sk, so it doesn't bother me. But if you're town, it
has to bother you. Even if you're not that invested, you have to pretend to be, or the game won't work. That's part and parcel of the logic underlying most systems of obtaining reads.
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Topic: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Game Over - Mafia Win! (Read 36775 times)