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[Shadowclaw777]

Okay that an excess of questions, I’ll try to answer the ones seem fitting

How will you be adapting to the slower play here?
I use these forums before, I really don’t need a adjusting period, I’m pretty sure I can handle it myself.

Nice to see a new face, but that probably means you're going to be getting a fair amount of attention right out of the gate. How do you think you'll handle that?
I can handle it since I believe I know what I’m doing or fall forwards in a horrible backfire, either one works

What number am I thinking of? Why is it important to this game?
7 because it’s a lucky number, it’s important because that’s the amount of usual town members for 10, don’t know about 9

[dolores]

EBWOP:
TricMagic
Of all the people who have posted, only two have asked you questions.
Why did you feel the need to skip mine?

TricMagic: in the previous game I played with you, you presented arguments which seemed totally illogical to me when you were playing scum, almost like you were taking the basis of a town game and just flipping the voting pattern/reads resulting from that. How will you play better this time as scum?

I've been pretty vocal about how I think lists of RVS questions are the basis of a healthy breakfast a good baseline for starting out D1. Surely you'd be aware that I had one addressed to you.
PPE: bleh

[dolores]

Shadowclaw777 now's your chance to find out what's going on with the roles and alignments of other players.
Also, none of the questions directed at you really help you establish an identity as town (or otherwise) here, just contribute to player's ability to metaread you.
How do you plan on finding and lynching scum on D1? Why haven't you done anything to put this into motion, seeing as you have posted?

Bonus questions: (they're not bonus, you're just in debt cos you did no proactive work in your first post)
Shadowclaw777: thoughts on Persus13 voting for ICT?
Shadowclaw777: some players have made sufficently substantial posts to give an impression in this game. Developed any initial reads yet?
Naturegirl

Naturegirl1999: how can we prevent this focus on a possibly weaker foreign player that I've just created from sapping our ability to exert pressure on other players in the thread? Does pressure like that even matter, or does a 4mask catching trap where scum are outed by their lack of motion when not under the light work better?

The above but retooled so it's regarding Tric, considering you ignored it the first time.
Something like:
Naturegirl1999[:/b] how can we prevent this focus on a weaker player with a known metagame from sapping our ability to exert pressure on other players in the thread, such as the foreign player we have no metareads on?

[Shadowclaw777]

Shadowclaw777 now's your chance to find out what's going on with the roles and alignments of other players.
Also, none of the questions directed at you really help you establish an identity as town (or otherwise) here, just contribute to player's ability to metaread you.
How do you plan on finding and lynching scum on D1? Why haven't you done anything to put this into motion, seeing as you have posted?

Bonus questions: (they're not bonus, you're just in debt cos you did no proactive work in your first post)
Shadowclaw777: thoughts on Persus13 voting for ICT?
Shadowclaw777: some players have made sufficently substantial posts to give an impression in this game. Developed any initial ready gets?

1: I establish myself as town, that’s the best information I can give you turn one, I don’t have a investigative power and I doubt random lynching goes in favor for Town, so it might be the best strategy to wait for the investigative roles to do their thing.
2: Persus13 voting ICT day one?, might be sketchy that ICT will act so their either a really good town player or trying to hide the fact their scum, as well Perdue may be trying to hide his track as a scum by voting a lynch as well as getting a another kill for scum tonight
3: Besides what I said in question 2, ICT and Persus taking the initiative; maybe TricMagic is hiding his fact he’s scum by saying his ability is useless.
@Dolorus: How good are you when your under pressure?, what’s we get more information as the game progresses, how good do you think are good at bluffing your way or proving your innocence?

@Superdorf That information you pulled at the beginning of the game was very informative, I guess we will have to assume it’s accurate until proven otherwise, so you have a high chance of being town.

@Persus12: If you were town, how would you about another town having a role that can kill people should be used early as possible to get lucky and remove a scum by 3/9 chance or wait until more disclosing information comes online?

I got no other questions sorry

[Persus13]

NQT: Would a census of abilities include the role that gave the Census ability as a possible result?

TricMagic:

To note, I kinda wonder how superdorf got that info.

Are you wondering out loud, or do you find that suspicious? Are you actually going to do anything to follow up whatever this is?

dolores:

IcyTea:
Okay, that crosses a line because it means emotionally vulnerable people can't actually get support because people think they are scum. Like I would probably ban you from playing in a game I ran unless you apologized.

That's been the state of the meta since well before IcyTea's play. I blame Flabort and Tiruin, but that's just because Flabort did the reverse and made an AtE as scum (cult) after I'd caught them as vig and I quit rather than bull through it because I wasn't sure if it was artificial or not. The more I've looked around, the more it seems to me it's always been like this. At least the way ICT phrased his, it seemed like he was getting mad about the fact that Webadict had been intentionally trolling as town (which he had), and that game was a fucking shitshow without it.
Why are you voting ICT?

Nah, it hasn't been. Tiruin perpetually has internet problems and a busy life, so RL stuff keeping her away has always been a null tell. RL stuff can happen regardless of in game alignment. I'm voting Tea because their behavior is not acceptable. Thanks for pointing out I'd missed a question though.

IcyTea:

With that context in mind, how important do you believe gauging other players' emotional states is for scumhunting?

I don't think its important at all. I like playing the game and finding who is lying and seeing weird interactions when people use a generator to churn out roles. I don't like people turning lies into emotional drama and pretending their real life is something its not for the state of an online game. If someone's in a bad emotional state, that should be more important than finding out if they're scum or town in a silly forum game.

Do you plan on telling folks when you've looked at your Role PM?

Shadowclaw: There's some words missing from your question so I don't fully understand it. I assume you're asking me how I would feel about finding out about a town vig?

[Shadowclaw777]

Yes I wonder how’d you feel about a town vigilante, this is really an @all question.

[notquitethere]

NQT: Would a census of abilities include the role that gave the Census ability as a possible result?

Here's what the source code says:

      say "receive a list of [one of]all[or]a third of[or]half[at random] the [one of]alignments[or]role names[or]action type names[at random] [one of]of living players[or]of players, dead and alive[at random]. Action: Census";

There doesn't seem to be any kind of census that would specifically exclude the person taking the census.

[Naturegirl1999]

Naturegirl

Naturegirl1999: how can we prevent this focus on a possibly weaker foreign player that I've just created from sapping our ability to exert pressure on other players in the thread? Does pressure like that even matter, or does a 4mask catching trap where scum are outed by their lack of motion when not under the light work better?

The above but retooled so it's regarding Tric, considering you ignored it the first time.
Something like:
Naturegirl1999[:/b] how can we prevent this focus on a weaker player with a known metagame from sapping our ability to exert pressure on other players in the thread, such as the foreign player we have no metareads on?

I imagine by broadening focus to more players at once...it is possible to pay attention to multiple players, no one is forcing anyone to exclusively focus on one player at a time

Yes I wonder how’d you feel about a town vigilante, this is really an @all question.

I’m hoping that if one exists, thst they kill a correct target (not town)

Shadowclaw777:
What number am I thinking of? Why is it important to this game?

What is the point of asking a question like this? How would determining what number someone thinks of help?
IcyTea31
Last game you seemed reserved on placing a vote, like you were being cautious. You placed a vote on someone fairly early on. Are you not as cautious this time around?

[dolores]

1: I establish myself as town, that’s the best information I can give you turn one, I don’t have a investigative power and I doubt random lynching goes in favor for Town, so it might be the best strategy to wait for the investigative roles to do their thing.

Oh boy
What kind of a blasted hellscape is it outside of B12 mafia that people don't know you can find scum on D1?
There are no town investigative roles. Z-e-r-o. Or play like there aren't if you are one. You've seen Superdorf's list and seem to buy into it. Do you see an inspect on there? Me either. Doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, you find scum during the day, not with powers.
I can tell you there's a player I don't want to lynch (Superdorf). There's also a player I do want to lynch (Tricmagic). We're going to lynch a player on every day of this game, and outside of specific situations where we can't avoid passing through mylo without a NL, every day of every game I or any other experienced player is in on this forum. Given that that's the case, let's do our best to optimize our chances by finding which players we probably shouldn't lynch, and more to the point, which ones we definitely should.
You seem to pretty well understand how we're going to go about doing that, though, so thank god. Nice first meaty post, 6.6/10, good job.

2: Persus13 voting ICT day one?, might be sketchy that ICT will act so their either a really good town player or trying to hide the fact their scum, as well Perdue may be trying to hide his track as a scum by voting a lynch as well as getting a another kill for scum tonight

Nah, we're going to lynch someone today. That's par for the course. My problem with Persus voting for ICT is that he doesn't justify it. We're going to lynch someone, but that person should be the person most likely to be mafscum. Persus has no basis to think that IcyTea might be mafscum, or at least none that he's willing to share with the thread.

@Dolorus: How good are you when your under pressure?, what’s we get more information as the game progresses, how good do you think are good at bluffing your way or proving your innocence?

I'm the best
My scum game is actually pretty weak, to my mind, because I can cheat as town and just churn out so much work that other players can see my alignment easily (making myself easy to read), and for obvious reasons that's pretty counterproductive as scum. That said, I'm very good at giving a positive impression on D1 and can usually ride that out without having to rely on actually defending against a well constructed attempt to lynch me based on some series of scumslips.

@Superdorf That information you pulled at the beginning of the game was very informative, I guess we will have to assume it’s accurate until proven otherwise, so you have a high chance of being town.

While I don't disagree that Superdorf is leaning towny, I don't attribute this to the information. The information would suggest that he is more likely to be town if we could verify it, but until such a time as a massclaim occurs, that's not really important.

Yes I wonder how’d you feel about a town vigilante, this is really an @all question.

Shoot people, don't claim. Doubling up with the scumkill or primes or whatever is great, saves on dead townies. Claiming is super bad if there's a brainwash which is something like a straightforward redirect on scum. If it's something like prime or poison, you'll have to claim if the person is likely to be lynched and you'd be able to kill them instead and they're not the last scum, but that should go without saying.

Nah, it hasn't been. Tiruin perpetually has internet problems and a busy life, so RL stuff keeping her away has always been a null tell. RL stuff can happen regardless of in game alignment.

It has. I was also referring to other forums when I said that, though it's definitely always been present on B12. I never said anything about Tiruin's inactivity (I'm refering to something totally different), but since you bring it up, what you've said is also bullshit. There are plenty of examples of Tiruin losing internet, regaining internet, posting in scumchat, and people just letting them ride out lurking because we were worried she drowned or something. Anyway, I'm not here to write a manifesto about the exploitive behavior of people who aren't in this game and which, honestly, doesn't bother me now that I know to show less tact.

I'm voting Tea because their behavior is not acceptable.

Go fuck yourself. Your behavior is not acceptable. If you've got a metagame problem with the behavior of other players hash it out in the banter thread or private messages or something when the game is over. You are literally bringing  "people turning lies into emotional drama and pretending their real life is something its not for the state of an online game" into the game. If you're telling me that all I need to do to get you to vote for a player in the future is make up a sob story about how they were mean to me in an earlier game, why would I ever not do that? People take advantage of this because you leave it there to be taken advantage of, and because of that we have to keep dealing with it in every second game.
Lynch someone who you can justify as being probably scum.

I don't like people turning lies into emotional drama and pretending their real life is something its not for the state of an online game.

Right, so let's stop paying attention to and making AtE's and just play the game and it can stop happening or backfire or whatever.
You're literally claiming to be offended and trying to use it as the basis to lynch someone. That's making drama and forcing it into the game. That's you. Nobody else.

If someone's in a bad emotional state, that should be more important than finding out if they're scum or town in a silly forum game.

First of all, go fuck yourself. How can you think that a game of mafia is not emotionally intensive? People are going to get invested, always. You can't avoid it. The game can't exist if we stop playing every time someone gets sad that they're losing.
As an aside, the presumption that you'd to decide to throw out the thousands of dollars (of hours invested in each game) of other people's time and effort for a pat on the back is just poor planning. Run a charity drive and pay for therapy or something, whatever works for you.

There you go, three paragraphs that have literally zero to do with the game. For all I know, and for all I've experienced in the past, you may as well be pretending to be offended to hide the fact that you actually want to lynch ICT because he's a strong town player and you're panicking scum. You don't get to get offended, because we're doing this because you decided to lynch someone based on drama.

[IcyTea31]

Is that a response or an accusation?

I don't want to enter N1 without knowing your alignment. Why do you seem content to do the reverse?

It's an observation which dodges the question without answering it.

Don't worry, I'll read my PM before the day ends, just in case there's a day-inspect there or something. Is there a possible situation in which I'd want to enter N1 without you knowing or "knowing" me to be town?

I can tell you there's a player I don't want to lynch (Superdorf).

Are you sure? Abilities aren't alignment-indicative, especially day-abilities. Personally I just dismissed the census as WIFOM for this early in the game.

I'm voting Tea because their behavior is not acceptable.

I don't think its important at all. --

Do you plan on telling folks when you've looked at your Role PM?

What part of my behaviour, in this particular game, has been unacceptable?

So you believe that any individual player's posts are equally scummy or towny regardless of whether they're happy or sad when making those posts?

You'll probably notice a change. If I'm town, I'll suddenly become really townish. If I'm scum, I'll suddenly become really townish.

Spoiler: Sincerity Mode (click to show/hide)

Real life comes first, yes, but when it comes to the game, other players' emotions affect my gut reads whether I want them to or not (this is because I have a capacity for empathy, even though I don't show it much). So, my options are either to look past them and play with an uncertain gut, or to analyse them with detachment and better understand both myself and them. That detachment also allows me to enjoy the game for its own merits, and to return to real life without carrying the worries of an extremely stressful game with me.

By the social contract of the game, we've all agreed that we can't trust each other while the game is afoot, and that we may use provocative language at each other, and that we will contain it all to one thread. This makes it difficult to console each other before the game is over and trust is restored, leaving everyone alone with their stress. The detachment I hold is my way of dealing with that stress; by keeping track of how the game is affecting me (and sometimes others) I know if I can let the game be a game, or whether I need to do something in the post-game.

So I ask you, Persus13: how do you deal with the stress of the game, in yourself and others?

I like to experiment with different strategies, and that game was an experiment on how effective it would be to falsify my own emotions, and not just lie intellectually. I'm deeply sorry if it caused needless worry in others. Rest assured, with my promise of trying to be concise in this game, I will be keeping a pokerface and will deal with any issues that might arise either by myself or after the game is over.[/sincerity]

Yes I wonder how’d you feel about a town vigilante, this is really an @all question.

Vigging is a careful art. A standard use case is figuring out that one of two players is scum, then lynching one and shooting the other if it was a mislynch; in other words one wants to be as certain as possible of their target. A careless vig will very quickly swing the game against the town.

What is the point of asking a question like this? How would determining what number someone thinks of help?

Last game you seemed reserved on placing a vote, like you were being cautious. You placed a vote on someone fairly early on. Are you not as cautious this time around?

What is the point of any RVS question? By telling someone to pick a number and to tell why it's important to the game, I gain insight to their creativity and to what they think of the game, and get them talking so I can grill them for something useful later. It's to start a conversation, not because I particularly care what the answer is.

I think you've got the wrong person for the second question. I haven't placed a vote on anyone yet.

[dolores]

Don't worry, I'll read my PM before the day ends, just in case there's a day-inspect there or something.

Right, I forgot about that.
Doesn't really make a difference though, right? There's no reason you can't convince me you're town without having looked at your pm.

Is there a possible situation in which I'd want to enter N1 without you knowing or "knowing" me to be town?

Some sort of paranoid gun vet baiting out town abilities maybe?
Alternatively, you're dodging the scumkill and need your lynching to appear accessible for D2, and consequently don't want a line of glowing townreads putting you in first place for the kill.

Are you sure? Abilities aren't alignment-indicative, especially day-abilities. Personally I just dismissed the census as WIFOM for this early in the game.

The census is WIFOM. (I also find it funny that it's five abilities, which doesn't have a particularly simple way to construct that Superdorf has claimed)
I just like how he's been playing. I don't feel particularly strongly about it, but it's just the strongest impression I've got so far on D1 so it's what I'm going to use as my example when I'm talking about townreading players today in the abstract sense.

[Naturegirl1999]

I think you've got the wrong person for the second question. I haven't placed a vote on anyone yet.

Sorry about that, I will reread the posts and ask the question to the correct person

[Naturegirl1999]

Persus13
I remember in a previous game you were more careful with voting. What made you vote IcyTea31?

[Superdorf]

dolores

Superdorf
Other than feeding me a question right away, you've done nothing but answer questions since your RVS questions.
Why haven't you asked any more questions? Is there nothing that's transpired so far that you want more information on?

I tend to take a long time constructing posts, and I try to answer questions directed at me before I ask more. These two things together, and the blistering pace things were progressing this afternoon... I couldn't keep up! I'll be looking to step forward a bit, now things have slowed down.

You've seen Superdorf's list and seem to buy into it. Do you see an inspect on there? Me either.

I'll just point out that the list I got is incomplete: maybe there's an inspect-role in play; maybe there isn't. I don't know, and right now I don't particularly care.

The census is WIFOM.

Right now, with no kills or anything to back it up? The census is indeed WIFOM. I just wanted it out so it won't get lost if I die or something.


IcyTea31

say you're a town player with some flavor of infect power. Under what circumstances would you not claim D1?

You are interested in my role and what I might do with it.

Clarify for me please: is this an answer or an accusation?


Shadowclaw777

1: I establish myself as town, that’s the best information I can give you turn one, I don’t have a investigative power and I doubt random lynching goes in favor for Town, so it might be the best strategy to wait for the investigative roles to do their thing.

Your power (or lack thereof) means nothing. You are here, you have a voice, and with that voice you can now determine who is scum and who is not.

Random lynching is indeed counterproductive for us. We're not doing that. We are using our voices to generate as much relevant material as possible, and we are assessing the voice of each player to determine their motives in speaking. By Day's end, we'll hopefully have the beginnings of an idea of who's working towards town ends and who is not... so long as people like me, and people like you, speak and observe and question and accuse.

2: Persus13 voting ICT day one?, might be sketchy that ICT will act so their either a really good town player or trying to hide the fact their scum, as well Perdue may be trying to hide his track as a scum by voting a lynch as well as getting a another kill for scum tonight
3: Besides what I said in question 2, ICT and Persus taking the initiative; maybe TricMagic is hiding his fact he’s scum by saying his ability is useless.

These are decent observations. Now ask each of those you've accused to explain their actions. Their answers will help us all to understand their motivations.


Persus13: I need words from you. Is IcyTea scum? If so, why? If not, why are you voting him? "I don't like the thing he did as scum that one time" is not an acceptable answer.

TricMagic: Why are you claiming a "useless" role so early?

[FallacyofUrist]

FallacyofUrist: If you had to cast a hammervote *right now*, who would you lynch? Why?

Your post here has the distinction of being the very first post made during this game. If I were to answer as though the game was in the state it was when you made that post, I would be very out of luck, possessing no data to base my guess upon. I would choose any player but myself at random - the term of your hypothetical says right now after all.

Now, if we take the phrase 'right now' to mean 'at the time of answering this question'... then it would be logical to say that I should hammer vote whoever looks the most opposed to town, yes?

So I will answer this question at the end of this post.

FallacyofUrist: I'm pidgeonholing Tric as scum preemptively even though he's a ostensibly a weaker player. Does it bother you that I'm setting up a lynch on someone who, theoretically, I don't need any help constructing a theoretical case on if he is actually scum?

Your question is convoluted but I will endeavor to answer it as best I can.

No, it doesn't bother me.

This is the very early stages of the game. Nothing decided here is anywhere near certain as of yet.

There is a Save ability in play.
There is a Brainwash ability in play.
There is an Infect ability in play.
There are at least two Prime/Ignite abilities in play.

Supplying information about the state of the game that will allow for improved narrowing down of suspects. Much appreciated - assuming of course the information is true.

Superdorf: By doing this you have made yourself a potential mafia target, if you are town-aligned, as the mafia will not want this information to be available to the player base. Isn't this... a bit risky? Valuable yes, but potentially risky. Of course if you were mafia you would have nothing to fear.

I'm not sure, but I think I got a randomly chosen list of half the powers, then got a second randomly chosen list of half the powers.

How are you not certain of this?

Naturegirl1999:
I haven't read my role PM yet. Why do you think that is?

Not reading your role PM immediately is an anti-town move.

Primarily because:
1) It casts doubt into the minds of anyone attempting to get a read on you. In fact it makes it impossible to get a true read, as you are not acting according to what your role is.
2) It taints the reads of people who try to get a read on you later, as they will take into account the portion of time where you had not looked at your PM. Even if they attempt to ignore it, their subconscious read on you will be influenced by what they've already seen of you.

FallacyofUrist:
Why am I not asking TricMagic a question?

Because you do not believe you'll get a useful answer. Or at the very least that's my guess. I'm not a telepath.

Note my Role is completely useless this game. Feel free to target me all you like.

I suspect the fact that TricMagic mentioned other players targeting him is a slip of some kind.

1: I establish myself as town, that’s the best information I can give you turn one, I don’t have a investigative power and I doubt random lynching goes in favor for Town, so it might be the best strategy to wait for the investigative roles to do their thing.

You seem to be assuming that day lynching without investigative powers to back it up is random. This is not the case. Through careful investigation the town players can heavily bias the chances towards lynching a mafia player.

Superdorf: To answer your first question I would hammervote IcyTea if I had to, due to the previously mentioned issues with not reading his role PM. And while I may not be able to hammer I can of course simply vote him.

~~~

Spoiler: Aside (click to show/hide)

I'm curious how many of you think my play style is different than what I've previously displayed.