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[janamdo]

Take the caravan entrance with all those screens..how to handle this sequenze to make a full profit from it ? ..did not understand completely
That's makes it that i get now a disavantage at the start of the fort.     
But sometimes its hard to know what a (serie) of screen is standing for.   
Therefore if there is a must to explain all in a Wiki.

You could also add a header to a column with figures and explaining more on the screen (coloring ) , but that makes it looks like all very organized and boring
Explain all in a Wiki that's enough

Health issues with the Dwarfs and attack on the fort is first issue to handle

[janamdo]

i do need now information about the stock screen and use a vanilla DF version.
Wiki shows the "detailled mode" of the stock menu, but that screen is made in with DF hack ( correct?)

I cannot find now information on a Wiki how the stock menu is build up for a vanilla DF game without Df hack
Were to find this information ?

[PatrikLundell]

i do need now information about the stock screen and use a vanilla DF version.
Wiki shows the "detailled mode" of the stock menu, but that screen is made in with DF hack ( correct?)

I cannot find now information on a Wiki how the stock menu is build up for a vanilla DF game without Df hack
Were to find this information ?

This is not a "help thread where we help newbies and answer their questions", but a thread about how to modify DF to confuse them less, so questions about how it works currently should be made in other threads (and you've already made some). The wiki page shows the normal stocks screen. However, you've probably not appointed a bookkeeper (as answered in one of your other threads at the time of this writing), which causes everything to be fuzzy. Personally I see no point in setting the correctness to anything than the maximum.

Some newbie helping suggestions resulting from this: Default the bookkeeping level to the maximum rather than the minimum as the default, and make sure to tell new players that the bookkeeper is an important position that need to be filled sooner rather than later. I suspect 0.47.X makes enabling the Justice system a high priority task as well (haven't started playing yet), and so new players need to get the info that they really need the system, how to set it up, and what's required to avoid high value "criminals" to be beaten to death for crimes they didn't commit (i.e. mandates).

[Hyndis]

The dwarven injustice system in general should be revisited. Beatings are far too lethal. Even tavern brawls often end in death. Dwarves have skulls as sturdy as lightbulbs.

A fist fight should not result in death. It should result in a visit to a hospital, not a tomb. A single punch should not cause a dwarf's entire head to explode into a red mist.

If punishments were a "break your legs" sort of deal rather than exploding heads then it would be a far less unforgiving system to the player. Having your legendary+5 armorsmith's head randomly explode isn't fun or enjoyable in any way.

Executions should be lethal, not beatings or brawling.

[Bumber]

Default the bookkeeping level to the maximum rather than the minimum as the default, [...]

Might as well remove the option for less accuracy. I don't think there's a huge difference in the time it takes, and you can't make full use of the stocks screen with anything besides the most accurate.

[Snow Gibbon]

I would like to add that I don't think that exposing the population cap is the right solution to the migrant problem. That sounds hollow and inorganic and DF is not one of those games to have an arbitrary difficulty slider like that. Population control should still present a challenge, albeit not right at the start. In 40d days if you produced masterworks from precious materials or struck adamantine you'd trigger a gold rush situation where the generated wealth would flock migrants to your fort and you'd have a bit of an infrastructure crisis if you weren't prepared. However in post 40d releases you'll trigger a 20+ migrant wave by digging 5ft into the soil and slapping a couple of nifty doors on the front.


I get the feeling that its not just created or traded wealth that affects migrant wave size but also potential wealth from your site as a whole. It may be that the algorithm is tuned to the 40d assumption that you'd have 30 z-levels worth of mineral wealth at the most. Now with the implementation of the cave system and underworld you're looking at 100+ z-levels of material and that's blowing everything out of proportion and slamming you with migrants out of the gate.

[Pancakes]

Maybe a coefficient should be added to the init files for how much wealth affects immigration?

Another way to go about it is have part of the meeting with the outpost liaison entail desired immigration minimums / maximums.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I would like to add that I don't think that exposing the population cap is the right solution to the migrant problem. That sounds hollow and inorganic and DF is not one of those games to have an arbitrary difficulty slider like that. Population control should still present a challenge, albeit not right at the start. In 40d days if you produced masterworks from precious materials or struck adamantine you'd trigger a gold rush situation where the generated wealth would flock migrants to your fort and you'd have a bit of an infrastructure crisis if you weren't prepared. However in post 40d releases you'll trigger a 20+ migrant wave by digging 5ft into the soil and slapping a couple of nifty doors on the front.


I get the feeling that its not just created or traded wealth that affects migrant wave size but also potential wealth from your site as a whole. It may be that the algorithm is tuned to the 40d assumption that you'd have 30 z-levels worth of mineral wealth at the most. Now with the implementation of the cave system and underworld you're looking at 100+ z-levels of material and that's blowing everything out of proportion and slamming you with migrants out of the gate.

Well, if you want a proper Dwarf Fortress solution, you're going to have to wait until Starting Scenarios, which deals with actual purpose of locations ,society, politics, etc. That's when immigration mechanics are due to be revamped properly.

However, that's a long time in the future. If a placeholder is needed to make things a bit more fun for noobs in the meantime, then it's going to be based on a fairly random arbitrary number (like wealth, population or whatever). Doesn't really matter.

[Snow Gibbon]

Well, if you want a proper Dwarf Fortress solution, you're going to have to wait until Starting Scenarios, which deals with actual purpose of locations ,society, politics, etc. That's when immigration mechanics are due to be revamped properly.

However, that's a long time in the future. If a placeholder is needed to make things a bit more fun for noobs in the meantime, then it's going to be based on a fairly random arbitrary number (like wealth, population or whatever). Doesn't really matter.

Well, yeah, the latter is how it should work now, or how it did last time I remember. What I'm implying is that whatever algorithm determines the migrant wave size is, probably, still working as expected but the parameters the function is getting fed are so inflated and the constants to temper the output to a reasonable degree have remained unchanged in the last 10 years and so its just maxing out the return value 100% of the time.


For all I know, anyway. That's why I say probably, Toady may have just set a constant to 99999999999 and left it like that until he looks back again.

[feelotraveller]

Personally I think that the migrant challenge should be to attract them in any significant number at all (beyond the first year which seems pretty balanced to me).  The player should be rewarded with migrants - more hands to mine, craft, hack, drink, etc. - rather than be 'penalised' (large immersion break) for carrying out more or less normal activities. And penalised more if they do better!

Assuming that the algorithm is complicated any quick fix by Toady is likely to be pasted on.  Obvious possibiilities are a hard cap on seasonal migration or a scaling of the outcome (say dividing current numbers by 5 or 10 or whatever) but without access to the code it is hard to say if there might be better easy modifications.

The population cap is already exposed and can (and semi-commonly is) used to limit seasonal migration, but not in a way that is at all noob-friendly.

[iceball3]

Worth noting concerning the pop cap feature: you can currently expel dwarves from your fortress on a whim, so that should be the ideal technique for now.
Is it possible to have dwarves homestead a hillocks for now, or is claiming or embarking near a hillocks all that can be done presently? I believe there was also a feature to send dwarves "out to pasture" at a hillocks, anf to bring them back too.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Worth noting concerning the pop cap feature: you can currently expel dwarves from your fortress on a whim, so that should be the ideal technique for now.
Is it possible to have dwarves homestead a hillocks for now, or is claiming or embarking near a hillocks all that can be done presently? I believe there was also a feature to send dwarves "out to pasture" at a hillocks, anf to bring them back too.

Existing hillocks will link themselves to you economically once you build up some wealth. In addition your civilization will found hillocks near your site in the same way. You can send dorfs there and call them back with a messenger. They tend to be just s stressed as when you first sent them...
Or you can send them to some place you've conquered, or just send them into the wilderness.

Then there are weird cases when the local Dark Pits or bandit camp "link themselves to you economically" which is representative of black market activities and other such not yet implemented goings on.

[iceball3]

Worth noting concerning the pop cap feature: you can currently expel dwarves from your fortress on a whim, so that should be the ideal technique for now.
Is it possible to have dwarves homestead a hillocks for now, or is claiming or embarking near a hillocks all that can be done presently? I believe there was also a feature to send dwarves "out to pasture" at a hillocks, anf to bring them back too.

Existing hillocks will link themselves to you economically once you build up some wealth. In addition your civilization will found hillocks near your site in the same way. You can send dorfs there and call them back with a messenger. They tend to be just s stressed as when you first sent them...
Or you can send them to some place you've conquered, or just send them into the wilderness.

Then there are weird cases when the local Dark Pits or bandit camp "link themselves to you economically" which is representative of black market activities and other such not yet implemented goings on.

Nice! Getting these features added to the tutorial would definitely be a good idea, as managing populations has always been something you couldn't really do besides "keep up with the influx".
Being able to reduce migrant waves by sending them back definitely has some significant gameplay implications with respect to that, and probably should be one of those things that just about any player should add to their repertoire. I know the population issues have gotten to the point where players would sometimes construct in-site deathcamps for unwanted professions.
The FPS implications are pretty clear as well.
That said, being able to control population attraction in-universe, by making your fortress politically more difficult to join (being able to force migrants to use the petition process, being able to expel visitors (can we do that yet?), and so forth) would definitely be helpful as well, as managing who gets in by expelling one-by-one could get to be too much as well.

[PatrikLundell]

Worth noting concerning the pop cap feature: you can currently expel dwarves from your fortress on a whim, so that should be the ideal technique for now.
Is it possible to have dwarves homestead a hillocks for now, or is claiming or embarking near a hillocks all that can be done presently? I believe there was also a feature to send dwarves "out to pasture" at a hillocks, anf to bring them back too.

Existing hillocks will link themselves to you economically once you build up some wealth. In addition your civilization will found hillocks near your site in the same way. You can send dorfs there and call them back with a messenger. They tend to be just s stressed as when you first sent them...
Or you can send them to some place you've conquered, or just send them into the wilderness.

Then there are weird cases when the local Dark Pits or bandit camp "link themselves to you economically" which is representative of black market activities and other such not yet implemented goings on.

Nice! Getting these features added to the tutorial would definitely be a good idea, as managing populations has always been something you couldn't really do besides "keep up with the influx".
Being able to reduce migrant waves by sending them back definitely has some significant gameplay implications with respect to that, and probably should be one of those things that just about any player should add to their repertoire. I know the population issues have gotten to the point where players would sometimes construct in-site deathcamps for unwanted professions.
The FPS implications are pretty clear as well.
That said, being able to control population attraction in-universe, by making your fortress politically more difficult to join (being able to force migrants to use the petition process, being able to expel visitors (can we do that yet?), and so forth) would definitely be helpful as well, as managing who gets in by expelling one-by-one could get to be too much as well.

The only way to get rid of visitors that are already present is to kill them or wait until they leave (it is possible to use DFHack to get them to "head for the forest"). You can obviously change the visitor settings to reduce the number over time (apart from the monster waves of artifact seeking groups that can exceed the visitor cap with a single huge group. This was reduced in an earlier release, but still happened in 0.44.12 [I had a group of something like 63 with a visitor cap of 50, and a handful of current visitors]).

[darkhog]

I think tracks need to be made more intuitive. I know it's an advanced feature, but many new players may want to try it out. Just from the recent Kruggsmash video:

- The tracks should tile and automatically connect to each other (similarly to Minecraft tracks).
- There should be no need to build track under the track stop for it to work.