Been playing a bit off and on usually after updates on the front page then I feel like playing again. I usually play my forts for around 20-30 years when feasible assuming I don't bug the game into crashing every spring or I don't FPS Death myself by accident, Firebreathing forgotten beasts making ungodly amounts of smoke burning troglodytes in the walled off caverns not withstanding
In regards to the stress system I don't hate it as a whole, There are just a few tweaks that need to be adjusted most just to maintain a playable level.
Most of my suggestions are about dwarfs handling their own problems because the unmet needs are across the board seem to affect the stress of my dwarfs the most
Food NeedsThe food one is the most oppressive one especially in when the item in particular is impossible to procure and when you do they will almost always eat it straight unless its something that isn't eaten raw.
The Primary change I would throw in is make generally well cooked meals at least quell the general desire for a cooked meals and eating it raw (Unless it is their favorite foods) not reduce it in that case, Then when they eat a good roast with their favorite food it goes a long way into satisfying its need. But on the chance they eat Mastercrafted roast with their favorite food in it should provide a positive thought strong enough to possibly sway their personality slightly the other way from the dragging negatives as if he had a bite of heaven itself.
Worshiping 2 godsPretty low key a dwarf breaker in a few previous forts some dwarfs enter the fort with the need to worship only 1 god while another came in with the need for 2. The ones who worship 2 though are at a long term disadvantage the second god will always be passed over in a loop to worship the other god and that need for that god will never be fulfilled and that need in 10 years of continuous play will eat him insane because he couldn't fathom walking a few steps down the hall and kneeling at the statue in the next room over and praying. There is also the dwarfs who don't pray in a non-dedicated temple but for me that's less the issue because a temple for each god is a baseline design but not intuitive to a new player.
Death and DwarfsI usually play with the pop cap somewhere between 30-60 I allow children to grow the population beyond that and wars are usually manually started now that raiding is a thing but i only have somewhere between 10-20 special selected military that I use on the fortress map because they can handle it.
But even though they are battle hardened as can be the dead doesn't bother them but it does bother traders so they all have to be moved out of sight but impossibly not out of mind each corpse of an enemy is its own negative thought and a 100+ dead corpses I can't make the military alone clean that up alone it will never be done before the next trader and before the next siege arrives. So it goes without saying a dead body bad thought needs a nerf only in terms how often it is allowed to occur in the same week.
Or as well i have another solution that could work at least in terms of long term exposure.Dump WheelbarrowsThis change I would suggest is for wheelbarrows to allow it them as a general usage possibly have them tied to a stockpile (I don't recommend because keas are awful if the wheelbarrow is outside) or make a specific work stockpile that only excepts wheelbarrows for labor hauling. Then when in use allow the wheelbarrow to load with multiple items to a maximum size or only 1 if the object in question is a giant 3000lb forgotten beast and then allow them to take those items to their proper stockpile and spread them around the stockpile as they see fit like they would if they took all the parts 1 at a time. So instead of weeks of 1-tooth ,1-hand, 1-severed head, 1 mangled torso, at a time and some of these are quite heavy depending on creature the dwarfs operate at wheelbarrow speeds and if multiple things destined for the same stockpile, dump location, or trade post. The overall time taken would be massively reduced to an in-game day reducing exposure times. Some might argue this can be done with minecarts but the problem with minecarts is they need a track and an already existing stockpile(Which won't be all over the map unless you were using corpse stockpiles to prevent trees from growing) to pull from and i see it as a kind of no dwarf necessary automated item mover than a cleanup item solution
But without some sort of reductions to the mental damage of seeing a dead body or at least a decay of its severity with each exposure (Outside of how the military won't care from seeing it all die) its still going to hurt but probably like 1/10 as much do to less exposure
Military needsThe need to practice martial art as I see it is a need for exercise I don't think this part of the needs system itself needs an adjustment as much as a way for dwarf to seek this out on their own like going to the temple, Tavern, Random meeting table, That wagon you forgot to disassemble 10 years ago, because some dwarfs don't need to be in a military squad they can't personally hand the rigors of battle without becoming exhausted and dying. Yet!
Easiest way is having an ability to designate an area as a training grounds that dwarfs can congregate too and off-duty military as well and dwarfs will personally pick up some stockpiled training weapons in the area maybe some temporary armor (Perfect use for an armor or weapon racks) and spar this could also include other dwarfs the ability to "Spectate Sparring match" and learn (which would handle that pesky "Unable to Learn Something" Need) or more importantly make conversation with those around them and make friends or rivals if some dwarfs like to argue.
But most Importantly how the martial art need is satisfied needs a small tweak to allow a full training session without increasing a skill level to satisfy that need. Right now the practice martial art need can even be the downfall for military dwarfs. They become so well trained that it takes forever just to satisfy this need. Legendary military dwarfs hit a cap some point in their tenure with the need itself becoming impossible unless you take their weapons away, which they usually became attached to and force them to start training another type just so they can train in something new.
Also if you train an easily stressed dwarf in the military just to sate his stress and his need for military training, He's a time-bomb. He now has to maintain training forever because as soon as he stops the backlog of needs he had been fighting off will take his 0 stress level at the slightest exposure to a bad thought (I don't understand which personality traits allow some dwarfs to build up happiness and others are hard-locked at 0) to something well within tantrum range he also won't stop training to take care of his other needs while off duty. Now you have a ripped body builder who just discovered that he can't make anymore gains no matter how much peahen egg he consumes, Then he'll tie the skinny gem-cutter to the ceiling by his beard and use his face as a speed-bag.
I Require to AcquireThis is one of the most frustrating need impossible to manually to anything about besides send the dwarfs on a never ending hauling job to move finished goods back and fourth till they find something they want and claim it they don't seem to actively seek out obtaining new things even clothing sometimes they'd rather wear the worn out sock over getting a new pair. But most dwarfs in my fortress are already wearing their pick of goods so they acquired something once right? I think the need itself needs a rework to either decay really really slowly or dwarfs attempt to trade up when they are stricken with the need but It seems to not be good for the game itself if every dwarf lives in a sea of old clothes and rings,crowns, etc. that they don't wear anymore one way or another it seems like dwarfs need to either need less in the long run or more willfully seek out something new and more easily discard their old stuff
"Favored" DwarfsIn a bid to talk about playstyle and how it can effect new players I often in the fort "Know of" 20 or so dwarfs the rest kind of vanish into an unimportant position in my mind because they haven't gotten my attention early enough. These 20 usually are also the most demanding the ones who turn bad from the first round of negative thoughts usually due to a thought targeting specifically the handling of stress something about rain and I end up having to dedicated a lot of time to just trying to placate them. I start off knowing up my starting seven I often forget to put some sort of nickname on them and they are lost after the sea of immigrants fill the fort at higher populations though these 20 sap the fun out of the game and eventually they are the ones I retire the fort from. They cry they trash everything they don't make friends they make enemies instead but do not gain happy thought about arguing but a need for it but they are also related to half the fort and banishment means everyone goes and I usually have a goal in mind and banishing half the fort would put a damper on that. Seas of corpses from invaders do kick the rest of the fortress into a frenzy of depressions bust most seem to rebound eventually but a few of those may push themselves through a few years of bad thoughts to make themselves part of the problem few but when the number of people I have to manually babysit gets so high I've just had it with the fortress so I quit and worst yet is I can't start a new fort in the same world because they will be back and they will be just as cranky as I left them
The saddest part is these handful of dwarfs will never find redemption their existence is marred by my negative feeling towards them they are more likely would be an "accident" That went missing and a slab made to commemorate them.
What these individuals need is something that can push them back the other way maybe if they somehow survive going 10-100k stress and i drag them back down to 0 or better maybe they should get a very very strong change in their personality that only targets how they handle stress and insure they don't rebound again. Going through hard times should make even slightly better times feel like amazing times.
I don't think anyone starting on dwarf fortress is going to focus so hard on even 20 dwarfs just to survive. The dwarfs need a way to handle their own needs and wants without player input
Being Creative, Doing WorkSlightly related to my other paragraph but not addressed is while I cling to these other dwarfs hanging hand over foot on their needs because they cause the most trouble I would suggest a dwarf to have to ability to do freelance work on their own free time if they feel the need. What I would suggest is some sort of designation system when you can tag workshops for free work and dwarfs with a labor attached to that workshop will use it (Probably Sparingly unless its making bone-crafts or wood-crafts) just to make themselves feel better because the be creative one or keep busy although easy to focus on when your watching that dwarf like a hawk because your hovering over him the ones that are unobserved go and fester outside my vision till the interruptions start.
I would also consider new direct designations for Items allowed to be used. My idea on this part is to on top of said workshops have an allowed objects and you designate it much like you would forbid, dump, or melt. You tag these objects as free use and dwarfs who want will use those to make whatever they will. Maybe we can have the ability to make bone carving knifes and dwarfs will take a bone and knives around with them and make little figurines at a reduced rate while also hanging out in an tavern or temple on their free time.
This idea would tie nicely in with an economics update as some free market capitalism which would work for guilds but is not on subject so a spoiler If you make a free purchase designation for things that you aren't attached too but don't want your dwarfs to use for free the dwarfs can spend their own money buying these from the fortress (which bars of metal being the most expensive of reagents usually are not expensive on their own without being worked into something) then use the free workshops to make some object and then trade that object back to the fortress so we can trade it and collect their coins or can sell it to the guilds independent from the fortress and they pay the coins for it. And i'd assume if the fortress designates something to be made the dwarf gets paid for the labor but not the item because you supplied the materials if you grind a dwarf to make Masterworks and pay him full masterwork price he'll be owed ridiculous amounts of money which isn't economically feasible. But his skills would make his freelance work very lucrative.
Then you could make adventurers or travelers arrive at the fort and pay your tradesmen to make things for them and pay the material costs.
Be interesting in adventure mode you could finally as a human or animal person to travel to a fortress find the armor smith and pay him to make you steel armor which is unobtainable in a human settlement or maybe they are in a guild and you have to talk to the guild about it
Then there's taxes... It seems feasible but you'd have to make every dwarf work enough to earn his first coins then break off into private work. Would be very interesting for cooks though if the roast value doesn't get a nerf.
I don't even know how to properly address this Need. It's a double edged sword at the moment. In my current fortress there are no keas but there are buzzards and grey langurs they run up cause a heap of trouble everyone gets a million stress from VENGEANCE! The animals retreat and come back again because they didn't steal anything yet. It satisfies the need for an exciting life but causes a whole heap of trouble. And That itch will be back. The number of times you can feel vengeance in relation to everyone who "Joined" a fight and the same animal retreating and coming back like a bomber on its second run, something with the vengeance needs a tweak.
I think some dwarfs should think about retirement from excitement. I think the vengeful or conflict thoughts should probably have a point where the personality changes to "Ok things have been exciting enough maybe i don't "Need" excitement anymore I'm Retired."
Rain is icky, Waterfalls are notRain holds too much sway on a dwarfs psyche oh how many have fallen to being slightly moistened it holds too much sway over the average dwarf but as someone else pointed out previously a change in how hoods and cloaks could prevent weather thoughts would go amazingly and the dwarfs stereotypical hatred for nature would be preserved.
Also perhaps add a [RAINPROOF], [WEATHERPROOF] or [SUNSHADE] tag to cloaks and hoods or something like that, to make them negate negative tags from being outside in bad weather. Wool could have a [COLDPROOF] tag on its own to make it negate bad thoughts from being out in a snowstorm. It has probably been proposed before, and I think as long as there is no dynamic in handling weather controlled by the player, the game shouldn't punish you for it.
Also, increasing the utility of cloaks and robes makes for an interesting Military uniform dynamic.
Little offtopic, but civilian uniforms for Wood Cutters, Miners and Hunters would be cool. I want to give my Miners helmets.
This took me a few hours to articulate I probably missed some things I set out to say and I might remember later if that becomes the case I might edit in a new paragraph but I think the greatest of the problem is how changes to personality just beat down the poor dwarfs without relent and don't seem to allow positive thoughts to take the personality the other way.
Even Still love the game will keep playing new forts regardless but with stress as it is I can't live without Dwarf therapist
Author
Topic: *We need your help with game ending stress* (Read 108070 times)