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[IcyTea31]

IcyTea

Deus Asmoth: How afraid are you of the delayed-kill mechanics (poison, infection, fire) in play?

They're slightly weaker than a regular kill from what I can tell, so I guess I'm slightly less afraid of them than I am of a regular kill. I haven't played with delayed kill mechanics so maybe I'm under-estimating them, but the delay on the kill seems to outweigh the benefits from what I can see.

The power of delayed kills is that they facilitate multi-kills, thus making it harder to tell whether or not it's a LYLO situation.

So. Have I said stupid stuff yet?

Not particularly, keeping your level of experience in mind.

Well, I'm usually reliant on hard facts to dropkick a Mafia member, and then the other Scum start panicking. It's just how Town of Salem works.

Where do you plan on getting those hard facts? What will you do if the other mafioso keeps their head?

And why are you asking me that question? Because you've only seen one game out of me, and that game was baaaaaaad. So you're trying to rile me, confound me, you're doing the exact same thing you did in Tric's BYOR.

I was asking you an easy question to test if you understand why people ask weird questions in the early game. No, the purpose is not to confound, it is merely to force a response from the target to better get a read on them.

Self-righteousness is an easier way to deal with an unjust world.

Does the black moon howl?

What parts do you think drew my attention?

Are you asking me to build your case on me for you? Alright.

How would you react if your ability was swapped for something useless before the end of this day?

ERMAHGERD Tea is rolefishing

The procgen abilities hold very little information about their holders' alignments.

ERMAHGERD rolefishing won't find alignment

ERMAHGERD Tea doesn't want to find alignment, they must be scum

I can see why you would reach that conclusion, but you're wrong about my intentions. The original Proc Gen Mafia, which I assumed you would have at least skimmed, had a lot of roleswapping on D1. I thought it would be offputting to see that happen in action, so I asked you the question to see how much you're thinking like me today, not to learn about your role. As for me not thinking roles are important: Their effects are, but revealing them in a massclaim is pointless as scum can speak the truth and live. A town powerplay isn't very useful when scum doesn't even need to lie to subvert it.

While I'm waiting on Maximum Spin, have a readlist thing!

Your reads have 4 scum. Are you sure there are that many, especially with how many nulls there also are in your list?

Asks pointed questions, but isn't doing much with his vote...

Conservative voting on D1 is fine, as long as the questions themselves are pressuring enough.

Alright, I have a maybe-read that Icy isn't role fishing, he's actually the swap-prankster. His ability probably has to do with swaptastic memes, and is thus why he's prying for data on "what kind of/how many roles will I be shuffling? HMMMM."

First off, that's rolefishing by definition. Secondly, what good would these memes be for the town? I'll ask you the same question as I did Starver in my first post: Would you consider aggressive swapping of abilities to be pro-town or anti-town behaviour? Why?

even in the one game here where I was mafia, I told the closest thing to the truth I could find that would hopefully not give me away at all times.

In that game you were in a full panic when the bandwagon rode towards you and couldn't salvage the situation because you were too sweaty to tell an effective lie. Though you now say that pressure is useless, it certainly worked on you back then.

Extremely. It is a foolish strategy that doesn't work, favoured by those who are not very good at mafia. In my personal opinion.

How would you suggest I determine right now who's scum and who's not?

You talk to people like a human. Didn't I already cover that?

Does it serve to help reveal scum? If so, how so?

Only insofar as it encourages people to talk, like humans. That's really all mafia is. You talk to people like humans, and then social at them. I'll be blunt; anyone who tries to give you a formula which entails more than that is either trying to pull one over on you, or socially impaired.

Once you've talked to someone "like a human" and have determined they are scum, what do you do? How will you convince everyone else that they're scum?

[KitRougard]

Frankly, I don't expect much in the way of hard facts. That's why I'm fishing so hard - they seem like the only solid facts I can pull up. And when the other Mafioso keeps their head, well, then it's time to hunt him down like the first one.

In the meantime, aggressive swapping is an anti-town move. As it is, we have probably all figured out what the heck our roles can do. But if they shuffle, then we have to decode the use of our new role, and besides, what if Mafia or SK snag a better skill than they had before? Extremely likely in this case.

[notquitethere]

Soon there was a full on tantrum spiral among among the Fortress makers after a cheesemaker was burned alive trying to fetch a misplaced sock from behind a stream of fresh magma.


DAY 1 - VOTE COUNT

- IcyTea31
- Starver
- randomgenericusername
- hector13
- KitRougard
- SuperDorf - KitRougard, Maximum Spin [2]
- TricMagic - Superdorf [1]
- Nirur Torir
- Maximum Spin - IcyTea31, TricMagic, hector13 [3]
- Deus Asmoth
- Shakerag
- Leafsnail- Nirur Torir [1]
- No Vote

7 to lynch.

Day ends: 5th May 7:45pm BST

[Shakerag]

Superdorf:

Do you agree with his views against my "pressure", though? I'm curious.

Uhh.  Yeah I'm gonna be straight with you and say that I'm way too shitfaced to process that right now.  Maybe tomorrow if you remind me, ok?

I'm gonna hold you to that.

Ok, let me see if I have this straight.  Maximum Spin is claiming that applying "pressure" is dumb, and we should feel dumb for doing it.  I think that Max is maybe half correct, in so far as that experienced players are going to handle being "pressured" fairly well as any alignment.  Having said that, just because some of us are "experienced" that doesn't mean we can't fuck up or panic while in a bad spot anyway. 

Max isn't really making a huge bold claim, but I'm curious to see how his playstyle will manifest. 

Regarding the old Dakarian advice, it is what it is: a beginner's strategy.  Something to build off of as you get experience.

[IcyTea31]

Shakerag: though I've read some of your past games, could you explain what your general plan for D1 would be in a more regular game? How much do the special rules of this game change your strategy?

[Nirur Torir]

You assume that we're voting with intent to lynch. We're not. We're voting to spark discussion; we're voting to see how people react. We are voting, in fact, to obtain that "information you discover later". Do you have a better method?

Here you state that you find voting to be a good information gathering tool.

To be honest, I like Spin. He seems honest, up front... Superdorf, though, he seems to be tunneling a man and rolling the bandwagon along.

Kit accuses you of tunneling and bandwagoning.

Am I tunneling? Maybe I'm tunneling. I want answers. I'll probably shift my vote somewhere else once I get answers, but first I want answers.

Truth be told, this bandwagon disturbs me. I'll hop off if it gets too large, and I'll be keeping a close eye on those who pile onto it with little cause. Like TricMagic.

I seem to have shoved this question in the wrong spot earlier, so I'll repost it here: TricMagic, do you believe the current hostility against MaximumSpin is a good thing? Why or why not?

And so you immediately start to pull off from attacking.

I've made a mistake, I think. I'm probably incriminating myself here, but... Unvote.

What's the mistake?
Why so much focus on whether or not you're looking scummy?
What are your goals?
How much do you intend for your play to be dictated by what makes you look scummy?

[Shakerag]

IcyTea31:

Shakerag: though I've read some of your past games, could you explain what your general plan for D1 would be in a more regular game? How much do the special rules of this game change your strategy?

I'd say that my D1 strategy evolved over time.  I don't really like D1, because we don't have anything concrete to work with (I'd like to see more games start on N0).  I used to embrace the RVS part more, but now I just kind of poke and prod at people and generally tend to more observe what's happening, so as to take the interactions from D1 (and the results from N1) and have a stronger foundation on D2. 

The rules of this game don't really change that all that much. 

[randomgenericusername]

I thought I should probably start with making a list of reads.

IcyTea31: Null, leaning town. Haven't exactly said anything that would make me read them as either alignment, but the recent "bandwagon" makes me feel that he might not be scum at least.
Starver: Null, since they haven't posted anything at all yet and there's just nothing to work with. I think it's too early to say he's lurking,
randomgenericusername: I honestly think I probably appear to be scummy to the rest, because of being kinda inactive and "lurky" like some have said. I really wasn't able to post, and I'll try to post more often whenever I have time and try to be more helpful from now on.
hector13: Slightly reading him as scum after calling out IcyTea for rolefishing. I don't know, but he seemed a bit too persistent on it. And the "bandwagon" reinforced my suspicions. It's not a very strong read, though. It's still too early in the game.
KitRougard: Scum, or maybe someone with a census-type investigative ability? Seems to be certain that hector13 is a SK with a "kill youself" ability, and tried to guess the town's distribution. So it's possible they have insider's knowledge.
SuperDorf: Just Null. For now, anything can be simply attributed to newbie mistakes, and until I see more, I won't be able to differentiate between that and actually being scum.
TricMagic: Null, too. With him, I just never know. Kinda just want to say scum and not bother trying to undestand him.
Nirur Torir: Leaning town for me, at least. Not very sure why, probably just a gut feeling. He just... Seems to be generally townish.
Maximum Spin: Leaning scum, spreading confusing and misdirection is never helpful for town. There's also been some low-content posts from him, which make me feel he might be scum posting to not appear lurky.
Deus Asmoth: A single post. Not much to read at all, so I'll leave him as Null.
Shakerag: I don't think I can even read drunk people. Null.
Leafsnail: Posted only twice so far, so I'm having the same problem as with Starver and Deus Asmoth. Then again, I haven't posted much either. Null I guess?

...Yeah, that's probably not very helpful. I read most of the players as null since I just don't have strong enough reads yet. And I might have missed some important or obvious stuff too. Also, while writing this post, about 6 new replies appeared.

[Shakerag]

KitRougard:
For what it's worth, I was a Serial Killer in the last Proc Gen Mafia as you can see here.

And I had the super awesome ability of "Once per night you can kill yourself. Action: Kill."  Go me.

[Deus Asmoth]

TricMagic:

On another Note, at Solomon, so one last push.

Who's your waifu?  I'm playing catchup on the BB event.

Medusa(Lancer), Lilies, Illya.

As for who I have, Hans, hands down. Medea too, and Little Santa Lily Alter.

Could you two please not? If you're going to lurk, so be it, but actually lurk. (Or better yet, Tric can answer my question if he's here enough to talk about video games.)

Naw, that's the path to losing my self-righteousness.

Why is there value in self-righteousness? Why is there no value in humility?

Self-righteousness is an easier way to deal with an unjust world.

There's no question here, I just very rarely see double standards like this in such quick succession.

Maximum Spin

Maximum Spin: Let's say the game begins, and you must make the first post of D1. Nobody will post before you do. What is in your first post in this case?

I'm going to be totally honest with you... if I had preassurance that nobody would post before I do, guaranteed, I wouldn't post.
I know that would ruin the game. It's still what I would do.

What's your reason for this? Just because it would be funny or for some actual in-game benefit?

KitRougard:

And why are you asking me that question? Because you've only seen one game out of me, and that game was baaaaaaad. So you're trying to rile me, confound me, you're doing the exact same thing you did in Tric's BYOR.

Frankly, it's kinda meh.

Is your objection here to the specific question being asked, or to someone trying to rile you up in the first place? How do you normally decide who gets lynched on day 1?

hector:

IcyTea: you’re doing a lot of rolefishing for someone who doesn’t think roles are all that important.

How much rolefishing is a lot? As near as I can tell he'd only asked one other person a question that could be interpreted as rolefishing at the time you said this.

Shakerag,
I swear to Christ if you post Endgame spoilers I won't do anything about it because I don't have any method of enacting vengeance upon you. But I will get very pissy about it.

Superdorf
Do you think that Spin would be posting less if you weren't voting for them?

IcyTea:

The power of delayed kills is that they facilitate multi-kills, thus making it harder to tell whether or not it's a LYLO situation.

That's true, sure, but in 90% of cases if I were scum I'd still prefer to use a kill that kills on the same night. A delayed kill is an entire extra day for the target of it to provide information to the town, even if they're not aware that they're about to die. This could come down to personal preference though. Would you rather use a delayed kill or a normal kill on night 1, for example?

[TricMagic]

------------------------------

TricMagic: You showed up, said some stuff about anime, plonked a vote on Maximum Spin, encouraged Shakerag to do the same, then disappeared. Would you care to explain the reasoning behind your vote?

Starver: Given your total silence these past few hours, I can only assume you're asleep. When you wake up, would you care to let us know who you find suspicious?

Well, this is a fun thing to check. Especially given I was asleep when you posted this.

At the moment, I won't explain my reasoning. For the reason behind this, tis simple. The start of the post above this one answers that.

I am finishing Solomon, Today. I have only 4 more battles to go, and plenty of quartz. Then, I'll do BB's event till I run out of AP. And after that, do the bio of my FEF character. Then do BB's event some more. Put simply, expect content from me tomorrow. Including my Reason for voting Maxspin.

[IcyTea31]

Would you rather use a delayed kill or a normal kill on night 1, for example?

Absolutely. The deception value (town reactions such as "hey, the doc hit their mark" or "huh, guess there's no SK") would be a net gain for scum especially in the early game, even if the target gets to act on the subsequent day.

[Superdorf]

So. Have I said stupid stuff yet?

Not particularly, keeping your level of experience in mind.

Ah, but my level of experience is why I'd be saying stupid stuff in the first place... 

Your reads have 4 scum. Are you sure there are that many, especially with how many nulls there also are in your list?

I'm currently working on the assumption that there's 3 mafiosos and a serial killer-- so yes, 4 scum. Perhaps I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

As for the nulls... those are placeholders, subject to change as people post more. I'm still waiting on Starver, say.

Conservative voting on D1 is fine, as long as the questions themselves are pressuring enough.

Hmm. Makes sense.

In that game you were in a full panic when the bandwagon rode towards you and couldn't salvage the situation because you were too sweaty to tell an effective lie. Though you now say that pressure is useless, it certainly worked on you back then.

Superdorf:
Ok, let me see if I have this straight.  Maximum Spin is claiming that applying "pressure" is dumb, and we should feel dumb for doing it.  I think that Max is maybe half correct, in so far as that experienced players are going to handle being "pressured" fairly well as any alignment.  Having said that, just because some of us are "experienced" that doesn't mean we can't fuck up or panic while in a bad spot anyway. 

Max isn't really making a huge bold claim, but I'm curious to see how his playstyle will manifest. 

Regarding the old Dakarian advice, it is what it is: a beginner's strategy.  Something to build off of as you get experience.

So this "pressure" thing works, but only on those who are susceptible to it-- and Maximum Spin is, apparently? At any rate, this is exactly the sort of thing I need to know. Thank you.

What's the mistake?

I read through Max's past games, and realized he tends to be like this as town, and tends to get lynched for it. Then he answered some of my questions, and his answers seem consistent to me with his personality and habits-- strange as those answers may be. He's quite possibly scum, but he's also quite possibly just eccentric, and I'm not sure enough which one it is to lynch anymore.

Why so much focus on whether or not you're looking scummy?

'Cause I'm new around here, and confused, and frankly kind of panicky, and I don't want to kill the wrong guy and I know I'm the wrong guy.

What are your goals?

I'm trying to find scum. I'm not sure how to do that yet, so I'm fumbling around in the dark trying to figure it out, and getting attacked for it. Maybe I'm getting attacked by scum. Maybe I'm getting attacked by confused town. I don't know which is which. I'm partly just trying to spark as much discussion as I can, in the hopes that more experienced players'll be able to pick up something useful from it. Is this working? I don't know. Maybe.

How much do you intend for your play to be dictated by what makes you look scummy?

I don't know. I don't know. If I get lynched, I can't find scum. All my words will become retroactively sincere, which is nice, but I won't be able to find scum, and I don't want that to happen until I've had a chance to say more stuff and make better reads.

But if I overthink this "scumminess" thing, I'll just freeze up and panic, and I can't hunt scum if I'm panicking. So I'm speaking my mind as best I can, but I am panicking, and apparently that's scummy too.

--------------------------

Y'know what? I'm gonna try to calm down. I'm clearly not cut out for this, but I'm gonna try to calm down. I'm gonna trust the rest of my town to figure out where my alignments lie, and poke at who needs poking.

Oh, one more question--

Superdorf
Do you think that Spin would be posting less if you weren't voting for them?

I did. Now that he's got votes and suspicious people on him, I figger he oughta talk just fine. So I'm poking TricMagic. I'll try and poke Spin with more questions, but my vote'll do better work elsewhere.

-----------------

Alright, now to come up with some proper questions, and maybe another readlist at some point.

[Maximum Spin]

What's your reason for this? Just because it would be funny or for some actual in-game benefit?

Neither. It's just the kind of person I am and I could no more do otherwise than I could produce honeydew from my abdomen like an aphid.

So this "pressure" thing works, but only on those who are susceptible to it-- and Maximum Spin is, apparently?

Nah. I don't produce the neurotransmitters you need to feel fear, or something. We're good, no worries.

Maybe try to don't panic. It's not like anyone dies for real if you lose.

[Shakerag]

For what it's worth, the last time Starver was online was April 26, 2019, 06:48:31 pm. 

He might need an official proddin', NQT.


Superdorf:

Y'know what? I'm gonna try to calm down. I'm clearly not cut out for this, but I'm gonna try to calm down. I'm gonna trust the rest of my town to figure out where my alignments lie, and poke at who needs poking.

Y'all doing fine so far.  Your activity level is good, and that puts you as better than a fair chunk of players right there. 


TricMagic:

MaxSpin. Reason: Why not Pressure.

Oh god, I totally missed this.  I didn't realize you were replying to me.  Whoops.  Maximum Spin.


Deus Asmoth:

Shakerag,
I swear to Christ if you post Endgame spoilers I won't do anything about it because I don't have any method of enacting vengeance upon you. But I will get very pissy about it.

Aww, I'm just pulling your leg.  I mean I don't even know if

Spoiler: Endgame (click to show/hide)

(you just had to look, didn't you?)

is actually a spoiler or not. 

But, that aside, what do you think it says about me that I let a random person control my first vote, which just so happens to be pushing someone closer to getting hammered (L-3, by my count)?