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[PatrikLundell]

:
It's a natural time to unify the graphics and the mechanics. Let people smooth/engrave walls from specific sides, and show the status of walls from multiple sides.

Provided the 'natural time' wasn't subjected to rather tight time constraints. Sure, I'd like the added ability to work different sides separately, but I'd rather have less confusing/more precise stockpile settings, for instance, if only one of the two could be implemented. Also, coding for enhanced wall manipulation is most likely wasted in the longer perspective, as the map rewrite probably will toss the current system away, so it would have to be implemented from scratch in the new system (which would be another 'natural time' for its implementation, again with fierce competition for the implementation of other worthy contenders).

[Rekov]

That's fair PatrickLundell.

And now that I think about it, if Toady ever decided to switch to rendering walls in partial tiles, he could always just target parts of full tiles on existing sprite-sheets, without the artists having to revisit anything. So there isn't actually much to be saved in hitting it in the 'art pass' after all.

[PatrikLundell]

Also note that there will most likely be a need for a new "art pass" to handle new abilities provided by the maps rewrite. At the very least there would be need for a way to display the World Tree, Cosmic Egg Shards, etc. as well as bizarre and alien terrain. Art probably ain't done until the game is done.

[vettlingr]

I made this, just as a proof of concept that 3D walls are fully possible witth the new system. Also it's up to you to decide wether filling in the black with a texture is a good thiing or not.

[Meph]

I made this, just as a proof of concept that 3D walls are fully possible witth the new system. Also it's up to you to decide wether filling in the black with a texture is a good thiing or not.

Not with multilevel view.

[CL3AR]

Why wouldn't it work with multilevel? If multiple of these 3d wall tiles are on top of each other, only the topmost one should show, right?

[vettlingr]

Why wouldn't it work with multilevel? If multiple of these 3d wall tiles are on top of each other, only the topmost one should show, right?

This is also my impression. I used the same method as all the other walls were made, seen below:

The only issue I can see is not multilevel, since that works fine even with TWBT, but rather the ramps.

I think Meph is referring to the 2D and 1/3 dimensions or what it was called where the north wall is extended, creating pseudo depth that doesn't translate well with multilevel view.

[Meph]

In multilevel you would only see the top wall, but the angle would mean that you should be seeing this: (Example for 4 levels)

[clinodev]

I can see the issue there, but perhaps amusingly the reason I don't use TWBT's multilevel is that I regularly carve out multiple z level halls, and get confused about what level I'm trying to build on or dig out, and your picture sure would fix that, lol.   

With that in mind, there probably will be people who don't like whatever multiple level view concept you settle on, and it would probably be wise to allow it to be turned off.

[jecowa]

I haven't been using TWBT's multi-level rendering either. I was watching a ~30-minute tutorial on minecarts and was kind of confused about what was going on. Over halfway through, I realized the YouTuber was using multi-level rendering and that he had several layers channeled out in his minecart tutorial room. I had thought the carts were traveling between floors up until then.

[MoltenIdol]

I made this, just as a proof of concept that 3D walls are fully possible witth the new system. Also it's up to you to decide wether filling in the black with a texture is a good thiing or not.

I just have to say, I love the colors a LOT. It reminds me of old games with colorful pixelart, and really livens up  the picture. The colorfulness, and the contrast between dark and light colors, is key! But alas, it overshines everything else from the spritesheet. I Think for this to match up, the colors need to be more saturated, even tho that is a shame, and i would love for the colors in the steam spritesheet to be revisited, for less saturation, tho that would be a Lot more work.
Maybe the shadows could be made more dark Blue Than grey, just as an example (for the steam sprites) to just deepen the colours, and create that real depth and colorfulness there is in Everything.

I Know its a Weird exapmle, but manhunt (the sick rockstar game) has a generally very, very vibrant colorpalette, Even though the setting is Very dark and "grey", with concrete walls everywhere, and the places are general not very bright. But, The colors theyve used, makes it so Beautiful. Even a brick wall is  beautiful in that game. And all the textures are like that, vibrating with color, shadows containing different shades of purple, red and blue, Even tho the object itself couldve just been made grey, like a rock, but they choose to go with colors. Black doesnt Really create darkness, more than some colors do. And colors are Beautiful and memmorable, Where high saturation makes Nothing really stand out. I know its the point for some things, to not make a chaotic mess of colours, but i think it would be Beautiful with a bit more color. It makes it more of a "painting", in a sense.

Another good examples is Heroes of might and magic III, where the fog of war, consists of beautiful shades of dark blue, almost black looking. Everything is vibrating with color. Light is anything but white, and darkness is anything but black, (except for darkness with a complete lack of light ofcourse, like at the bottom of the ocean).
But in general, i Think using too much black, and shades of grey, Should be avoided.

I would love to See you make a tileset with colors like this, after the graphics coding has been done.


I do also think, that what is unexplored, should stay black, or some other fog of war texture (homm3?).
The exposed walls could have your textures (since youve revealed the material type) and fade out into the unexplored tiles with fog of war. I would really love that. And i like the way youve done it, with the fading material types.
Also, the walls "rock border" sprite, i dont think it Should be there, when the solid material meets Another solid block, like a ramp (like in the top right of the image). It Should only have the rock border, when the wall is exposed, to simulate support made of stacked rocks, if it is Indeed a soil layer. Hope you understand my wording.

[CL3AR]

Colors should be fine as long they don't introduce a lot of noise. I like how Oxygen Not Included fills in their rocks. Big textures instead of individual tiles. Maybe something sort of like that for unexplored places. Black is too stark, I feel.
For me, the problem with most current DF tilesets is that they are way too noisy, which means that nothing stands out.

[PatrikLundell]

The problem with vettlingr's background is that it looks like it contains information, when there should be none. It's unexplored rock (and doesn't look like rock). Sure, it's possible to exploit how DF builds its biomes and geo biomes to show the boundaries you know are there because you know the rules (assuming you do), but I don't think those "arbitrary" design decisions should be made visible, as they're more unfortunate side effects than intended functionality.

Unexplored should be hidden (which is a conscious design decision in DF). The fact that it's unknown can be conveyed in various ways, with and without variation (vanilla DF has some variation, for instance).

[CL3AR]

Could make it like Rimworld. Slightly textured brown rock.

Or maybe make the unknown areas have colors depending on the usual rocks in that area or biome.

[Meph]

Or we could leave it black(ish, it's dark grey with a blue hue at the moment).