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Author Topic: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]  (Read 18956 times)

IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2019, 05:47:06 am »

Quote
How much more informative was Tric's lynch?
Not much, but I actually suspected him of being scum.

Quote
On the other side of the coin, you tied up the vote when you changed your vote, meaning you didn't have to make the decision on who got lynched.
Inaction is action, not changing the vote would have been the decision to lynch Leodanny. Furthermore, I already addressed this concern on D1:
Yes, better a no lynch than a very likely mislynch headed by my main suspects #1 and #2. The problem I have with split votes, especially ones where several players have just a few votes each, is that they can be manipulated to reach a plurality while people are offline.

Quote
Okay, I'm willing to see how this plays out between you, for now. I appreciate you have to present what you're doing as masterful town plan, but it's also what scum would be doing at this point.
Tell me, then, what town would be doing at this point. Not making strategies? Not using what little reliable information they have? Not taking into account that two of their three possible suspects are scum?
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piratejoe

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2019, 07:33:16 am »

Now then, I have a few things to say here, part of it being related to Hector13. This was after quite a good deal of thought and thinking about the information I have. Now, to start things off, with the transporter being confirmed by three people, at least one of them has to be town, and I highly doubt that Leo just got lucky and picked the right person as the other person transported, so that means Leo should not under any circumstance be lynched. Now, Hector13 claims that with Heydude and Icy transported, then that means I did the night kill, because clearly he didn't, there is an issue with this line of logic, you see, this is under the assumption that the transporter role blocks anyone they transport (which isn't true last I checked) and also means that the only thing Hector13 has as a defense is his own word of mouth and in reality he is just as likely at being the actually culprit using that assumption as I am. Thinking about all of the facts here, I'm fairly certain Hector13 himself isn't going to back down, and him making the first shot gives him an advantage, unfortunately.

I feel it is important to mention, seeing how no one did yet, that considering the only attempted role block last night was on the transporter, we know for a fact that the Mafia have either a Framer or a Consigliere, unless of course, Pavellius or they just didn't do anything at night, but I highly doubt that.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2019, 07:47:38 am »

Piratejoe, explain your reasoning here: why is heydude6 higher than the confirmed townie? Why am I above hector? In general, what is your rerasoning for this ranking?
In my list of who I think is town to scum it is this

Town
   ^
heydude6
Leodanny
IcyTea31
hector13
   v
Scum

Quote from: Votebox
piratejoe (2) - hector13, IcyTea31

Not Voting: piratejoe, heydude6, Leodanny,

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piratejoe

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2019, 08:50:26 am »

The list is outdated, its as simple as that. It was what I thought at the start of the day without thinking much about what happened. Currently, its along these lines.

Town
   ^
Leodanny
IcyTea
Heydude6
Hector13
   v
Scum

The reason Heydude was higher on the list at the start of the day is because of information, however, with the information of transporting, that changes things. Now, if worse comes to worse, I'll take a sledge hammer to this so town may have a chance, otherwise, I'm going to try and make sure this goes delicately as the sledge hammer approach paints a target on my back.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2019, 09:18:49 am »

Details, son. Why do you now put me as highest unconfirmed? What lowered your trust in heydude? Why did you put hector at the bottom in the first lace?

Why aren't you voting for and/or questioning those you think are scum?

Now, if worse comes to worse, I'll take a sledge hammer to this so town may have a chance, otherwise, I'm going to try and make sure this goes delicately as the sledge hammer approach paints a target on my back.
What do you mean by this?
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piratejoe

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2019, 09:37:19 am »

What I mean by sledge hammer to this is basically stating my roll and then stating everything I know. I really can't do anything other than point out scummy behavior unless I go overt, or just try and hint at what I know. Though at this point I'm probably stuck doing the whole Sledge hammer mode anyway because the mafia would know something is up and honestly, if I don't put what I know on the table now, Town might lose. To put it quite simply, the mafia last night obviously visited Pavellius, but they also visited Heydude6. I know this because I have the grave misfortune of being the second spy which really doesn't help my case. Either way, this means that they were targeting you, Icy, instead of Heydude6. Now, because I highly doubt the mafia's Consig or Framer would visit a member of their team willingly, I'm dead certain you are town. So, I believe that the Consig visited their mafia buddy, and the Scum are Heydude6 and Hector13. Now, I'd prove to you that I'm spy because I bugged you, but because you stated you were transported and no one else visited you last night, I cant actually say anything everyone dosen't already know other than you would have been visited by someone else if it wasn't for the transporter. With all of this info on the table, I think you can see now why I wasn't too keen to just go overt and put all the cards on the table...
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #156 on: February 03, 2019, 10:13:05 am »

An interesting claim, consistent with data so far. I'll unvote for now, but I imagine I'll hear some counterclaims from hector and heydude very soon, especially as I know at least one of them is scum.

Quote from: Votebox
piratejoe (1) - hector13

Not Voting: piratejoe, heydude6, Leodanny, IcyTea31

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hector13

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #157 on: February 03, 2019, 12:10:43 pm »

Now then, I have a few things to say here, part of it being related to Hector13. This was after quite a good deal of thought and thinking about the information I have. Now, to start things off, with the transporter being confirmed by three people, at least one of them has to be town, and I highly doubt that Leo just got lucky and picked the right person as the other person transported, so that means Leo should not under any circumstance be lynched. Now, Hector13 claims that with Heydude and Icy transported, then that means I did the night kill, because clearly he didn't, there is an issue with this line of logic, you see, this is under the assumption that the transporter role blocks anyone they transport (which isn't true last I checked) and also means that the only thing Hector13 has as a defense is his own word of mouth and in reality he is just as likely at being the actually culprit using that assumption as I am. Thinking about all of the facts here, I'm fairly certain Hector13 himself isn't going to back down, and him making the first shot gives him an advantage, unfortunately.

I made no assumption regarding the transporter roleblocking anyone. They both targeted each other, and they were both transported to target themselves, meaning they both have actions that don't kill, else one of 'em would be dead.

I also pointed out I was by no means cleared in anyone else's eyes after I voted you, because I sat in the privileged position of apparently being the only town member unmolested in the night. Thus, with Leodanny transporting IcyTea and heydude, and neither of them being dead, the only person capable of killing is me or piratejoe.

I feel it is important to mention, seeing how no one did yet, that considering the only attempted role block last night was on the transporter, we know for a fact that the Mafia have either a Framer or a Consigliere, unless of course, Pavellius or they just didn't do anything at night, but I highly doubt that.

The only claimed roleblock was on Leodanny last night, which is a significant difference.

How do we know for a fact the mafia have either a framer or a consigliere?

What I mean by sledge hammer to this is basically stating my roll and then stating everything I know. I really can't do anything other than point out scummy behavior unless I go overt, or just try and hint at what I know. Though at this point I'm probably stuck doing the whole Sledge hammer mode anyway because the mafia would know something is up and honestly, if I don't put what I know on the table now, Town might lose. To put it quite simply, the mafia last night obviously visited Pavellius, but they also visited Heydude6. I know this because I have the grave misfortune of being the second spy which really doesn't help my case. Either way, this means that they were targeting you, Icy, instead of Heydude6. Now, because I highly doubt the mafia's Consig or Framer would visit a member of their team willingly, I'm dead certain you are town. So, I believe that the Consig visited their mafia buddy, and the Scum are Heydude6 and Hector13. Now, I'd prove to you that I'm spy because I bugged you, but because you stated you were transported and no one else visited you last night, I cant actually say anything everyone dosen't already know other than you would have been visited by someone else if it wasn't for the transporter. With all of this info on the table, I think you can see now why I wasn't too keen to just go overt and put all the cards on the table...

Right, you found the scum team but you're not voting for either of them. You also waited until the latter half of D2 to inform us of that, despite it being pretty clear what happened between Leodanny/IcyTea/heydude.

This is the easiest claim to make given the information we have available, and it conveniently allows you to either "clear" your scum partner or mislead the town into thinking the townie is your scum partner. Notable in that it allows you to significantly change your reads list without too much hassle, too.

Equally so, I'm still bottom of the list, despite you apparently having incontrovertible proof (from your perspective) that heydude is scum, 'cause he visited himself and scum visited heydude.

Quote
Okay, I'm willing to see how this plays out between you, for now. I appreciate you have to present what you're doing as masterful town plan, but it's also what scum would be doing at this point.
Tell me, then, what town would be doing at this point. Not making strategies? Not using what little reliable information they have? Not taking into account that two of their three possible suspects are scum?

Scum are also making strategies, using the information available of them to influence town to make a poor decision.

Case in point: piratejoe. He knows he messed up by not realising earlier that only he or I could have performed the nightkill, now he's trying to dig his way out of that hole by implicating someone else with the information available in the thread.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #158 on: February 03, 2019, 12:35:35 pm »

How do we know for a fact the mafia have either a framer or a consigliere?
Now that's an interesting question, actually. If piratejoe really were the spy, he would know if someone besides Pavellius or heydude was visited by mafia. Heydude hasn't claimed being rb'd, so we can deduce that either heydude is lying scum or the consort targeted Pavellius or there isn't one. That would mean Leodanny's claimed roleblock was by a town escort. That's impossible if piratejoe is a spy, as there is only one non-investigative townie still alive, which means piratejoe is lying.

Quote
Case in point: piratejoe. He knows he messed up by not realising earlier that only he or I could have performed the nightkill
I could have done it. Heydude could have done it. If you're town, at least one of us is scum and thus possibly lying about our claimed actions.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #159 on: February 03, 2019, 12:37:58 pm »

I could have done it. Heydude could have done it. If you're town, at least one of us is scum and thus possibly lying about our claimed actions.
The question that arises from this: hector, why do you trust me at face value?
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #160 on: February 03, 2019, 12:43:00 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
piratejoe (2) - hector13, IcyTea31

Not Voting: piratejoe, heydude6, Leodanny

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Tomasque

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #161 on: February 03, 2019, 01:08:43 pm »

It turns out that there were a couple more problems with the Transporter's role description. Here is the updated description, with added areas in green and removed areas struck through.

Transporter:
  Ability - Cause all targets players visiting your first target tonight to instead visit your second target, and vica versa, using their ability on the new person they're visiting. They Your targets are informed that this ability was used on them, but not told who the other target is. You do not visit your second target, and you may choose yourself as that target. If the Doctor or Bodyguard are targeting themselves or the Jester is targeting one of their voters, they will not be switched to another target. If the other Transporter targets one of your target players, either you or they are randomly chosen to have their ability trigger first.
  Additional Info - You are immune to the Escort, Consort and Witch's abilities.

Since it looks like my pre-game proofreading let a lot of mistakes slip through, I'll be doing another one soon. I sincerely hope that these mistakes haven't swung the game.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 01:10:57 pm by Tomasque »
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hector13

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #162 on: February 03, 2019, 01:16:02 pm »

I could have done it. Heydude could have done it. If you're town, at least one of us is scum and thus possibly lying about our claimed actions.
The question that arises from this: hector, why do you trust me at face value?

What makes you say I trust you?
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IcyTea31

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #163 on: February 03, 2019, 01:19:46 pm »

What makes you say I trust you?
That you believe me without question when I say my action failed due to self-target (an unconfirmable claim), and thus assume I couldn't have performed the nightkill.
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hector13

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Re: Town of Salem Mafia [7/7]
« Reply #164 on: February 03, 2019, 01:35:49 pm »

What makes you say I trust you?
That you believe me without question when I say my action failed due to self-target (an unconfirmable claim), and thus assume I couldn't have performed the nightkill.

It's confirmed by two other players. Well, one, really, but they're basically confirmed town.

You were transported to target yourself. You're not dead, so you can't kill people. The same can be said of heydude.

Thus, from my perspective, piratejoe killed Pavellius.

One of you and heydude is scum. I don't trust that you're not trying to bus your partner, but I can't discount the potential piratejoe is bussing his.
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