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[Teneb]

"dystopia"

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia. What Star Wars actually is, is "Fantasy... IN SPACE".

There are other setting that are space dystopias, but Star Wars is something else.

[scriver]

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia.

I strongly disagree

[Teneb]

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia.

I strongly disagree

You are saying the Empire isn't a dystopia?

[Asgarus]

I wouldn't just differentiate between Star Trek and Star Wars..

Star Wars is not a traditional Dystopia, but it definitely goes in the same direction, and in a pretty large scale.
I'd say Warhammer is much darker and more dystopian.

I also don't think Star Trek is really utopian... it just puts today's conflicts and places them in a larger scale.
Instead of racism and other conflicts between humans there are racism and other conflicts between different species/factions.
So, the human society itself might be utopian for the most parts, but the whole universe is far from utopian.

And there are other scifi settings that are quite different from those three.
Andromeda, Stargate, Halo, Battlestar Galactica, and probably some I forgot.

I wouldn't count shows like The Expanse or Killjoys yet since are too young and their lores aren't as deep and complex yet, but they have potential.

[thegoatgod_pan]

I wouldn't just differentiate between Star Trek and Star Wars..

Star Wars is not a traditional Dystopia, but it definitely goes in the same direction, and in a pretty large scale.
I'd say Warhammer is much darker and more dystopian.

I also don't think Star Trek is really utopian... it just puts today's conflicts and places them in a larger scale.
Instead of racism and other conflicts between humans there are racism and other conflicts between different species/factions.
So, the human society itself might be utopian for the most parts, but the whole universe is far from utopian.

And there are other scifi settings that are quite different from those three.
Andromeda, Stargate, Halo, Battlestar Galactica, and probably some I forgot.

I wouldn't count shows like The Expanse or Killjoys yet since are too young and their lores aren't as deep and complex yet, but they have potential.

Star Trek is absolutely an utopia—not the whole galaxy but the society central to the plot has free energy, no money, limitless support for creative and intellectual endeavors, assumes racial, gender and interspecies equality as default values etc. Not only are all or almost all human problems resolved, but humanity works to improve other species lives.

Conversely, in Star Wars, the whole galaxy is a shitshow with criminal-run planets, where technology is literally regressing and becoming more junky by the century, evil wizards run a terrifying empire and the good guys are just the same sort of wizards but with more repression, who repeatedly go bad and make the galaxy even worse.

[scriver]

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia.

I strongly disagree

You are saying the Empire isn't a dystopia?

Any empire that can be defeated by a ragtag group of plucky rebels is not a dystopia.

Sure, the empire is shitty as fuck. But that doesn't make it a dystopia. Star Wars as a work does not play to the themes to make that term valid.

[Persus13]

Its worth pointing out that utopian and utopia mean slightly different things. Star Trek is absolutely utopian for the reasons goatgod pointed out, but its not a utopia for some of the reasons Asgarus mentioned.

[Asgarus]

I wouldn't just differentiate between Star Trek and Star Wars..

Star Wars is not a traditional Dystopia, but it definitely goes in the same direction, and in a pretty large scale.
I'd say Warhammer is much darker and more dystopian.

I also don't think Star Trek is really utopian... it just puts today's conflicts and places them in a larger scale.
Instead of racism and other conflicts between humans there are racism and other conflicts between different species/factions.
So, the human society itself might be utopian for the most parts, but the whole universe is far from utopian.

And there are other scifi settings that are quite different from those three.
Andromeda, Stargate, Halo, Battlestar Galactica, and probably some I forgot.

I wouldn't count shows like The Expanse or Killjoys yet since are too young and their lores aren't as deep and complex yet, but they have potential.

Star Trek is absolutely an utopia—not the whole galaxy but the society central to the plot has free energy, no money, limitless support for creative and intellectual endeavors, assumes racial, gender and interspecies equality as default values etc. Not only are all or almost all human problems resolved, but humanity works to improve other species lives.

Conversely, in Star Wars, the whole galaxy is a shitshow with criminal-run planets, where technology is literally regressing and becoming more junky by the century, evil wizards run a terrifying empire and the good guys are just the same sort of wizards but with more repression, who repeatedly go bad and make the galaxy even worse.

You are comparing a single species of one franchise with a whole galaxy of another...

I said the human society in Star Trek is utopian for the most part (not completely because of things like sector 31 and Khan) but the whole universe (galaxy isn't enough since there are several species/members of species from other galaxies) is far from being utopian (Orion Syndicate, Ferengi, wars between whole empires, sects, and so on).

In that regard, the Star Wars universe is pretty similar. You have large factions fighting each other but also utopian-like species (for example one that was advancing before most other species and stopped exploring the galaxy because they didn't find anybody else, isolated themselves and created a high tech civilization living in peace and luxury), they just don't play as much as a role as humanity in Star Trek.

[xaritscin]

i agree a bit in how annoying is the "junkard" style they want to put in the game. i get it, its lthe lawless frontier and stuff like that but does it really need to look like "Fallout: In Space"? im not a fan of the uber clean and chrome style of certain franchises either but this is kind of a turnoff.

honestly at times it feels like space games dont try to bring a different art style into the table. i would actually invest into paying one of these titles if it was a space simulator with a XIX Century atmosphere instead, Sunless Skies is cool but its more of an airship adventure rather than an actual steam powered spaceships exploration.

i guess people is jus too much used to the Stargate, Star Trek/Wars or Flash Gordon era space adventures and thus this kind of explorations arent profitable at all.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia.

I strongly disagree

You are saying the Empire isn't a dystopia?

Any empire that can be defeated by a ragtag group of plucky rebels is not a dystopia.

Sure, the empire is shitty as fuck. But that doesn't make it a dystopia. Star Wars as a work does not play to the themes to make that term valid.

Um...

dys·to·pi·a
/disˈtōpēə/Submit
noun
an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one.

So y'know.

"dystopia"

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia. What Star Wars actually is, is "Fantasy... IN SPACE".

There are other setting that are space dystopias, but Star Wars is something else.

Also listen, this genre constriction is entirely arbitrary. All science fiction is fantasy, some is just more fantastical than others--it really has nothing to do with the thematic elements of the story.

[Teneb]

Yeah, Star Wars is a very light dystopia.

I strongly disagree

You are saying the Empire isn't a dystopia?

Any empire that can be defeated by a ragtag group of plucky rebels is not a dystopia.

Sure, the empire is shitty as fuck. But that doesn't make it a dystopia. Star Wars as a work does not play to the themes to make that term valid.

Um...

dys·to·pi·a
/disˈtōpēə/Submit
noun
an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one.

So y'know.

Given how the last ban came about... let's not thump our dictonaries too hard, yeah?

Just a friendly warning since I'd rather not see anyone in this discussion get the boot.

[Madman198237]

The thing about Star Wars is that the universe is NOT dystopic, because it's not a soundly horrible place, etc. etc.

The Empire isn't even necessarily dystopic either, given that the movies never clarify the lives of people under the Empire. Yes, books do, but even the books fall FAR short of making them into some sort of horrible murderous dystopia---generally lives continue as they have been, with only the occasional spot of genocide to darken your day.

Yes, there may be dystopia-like elements here and there, but nothing is really a true dystopia because one of the themes of Star Wars is that there is always hope.

_{Some might say that there is always a new hope in Star Wars.}

[Asgarus]

The thing about Star Wars is that the universe is NOT dystopic, because it's not a soundly horrible place, etc. etc.

The Empire isn't even necessarily dystopic either, given that the movies never clarify the lives of people under the Empire. Yes, books do, but even the books fall FAR short of making them into some sort of horrible murderous dystopia---generally lives continue as they have been, with only the occasional spot of genocide to darken your day.

Yes, there may be dystopia-like elements here and there, but nothing is really a true dystopia because one of the themes of Star Wars is that there is always hope.

_{Some might say that there is always a new hope in Star Wars.}

Yup, basically what I'm trying to say. The galaxie the stories in the big sci-fi universes play in are far too huge and filled with too many different species and civilizations to be purely utopian or dystopian. Even Warhammer isn't purely dystopian, but is probably closer to it than any other universe.

[Kagus]

Even Warhammer isn't purely dystopian, but is probably closer to it than any other universe.

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, there is only war.

[Asgarus]

Even Warhammer isn't purely dystopian, but is probably closer to it than any other universe.

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, there is only war.

Well, yeah, but not on every planet at any given time There are civilized planets where people live normal lives.