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Author Topic: That First Werecreature....  (Read 3355 times)

skoubi

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That First Werecreature....
« on: August 30, 2018, 04:00:38 pm »

Hi guys.
It probably has been discussed before, but for the life of me, the search feature doesn't give me some good results.
I have played over 50 games in DF and when the 1st werecreature appears, it all goes south.
My problems are:
1. Any hastily erected squad can't face it.
2. I don't have many weapons or barracks trained dwarves. Embark points are simply not enough to get weapons as well or assign Combat Skills.
3.When I try to enclose the entrance beforehand, dig moats, build 2Z-Level with carved fortifications it takes time from other projects and the infrastructure stays behind.

Guys I'd love some insight please.
I know losing is !!fun!! but it would be nice if I would not lose "again" next time from that 1st werecreature.

Thank you.
 
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Astrid

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 04:03:48 pm »

build doors with a bit of space between them, lock the doors, wait for it to transform back, murder the hapless naked individual.
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Immortal-D

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 04:17:29 pm »

There is absolutely no shame in going full turtle mode during the early years.  Build a drawbridge, and when the first Were shows itself, just lock yourself underground until it goes away.  Due to being dependent on the lunar cycle, they typically don't last more than a week.

Adequate Swimmer

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 04:18:38 pm »

I've survived several werebeast infections in this build and it all comes down to being prepared.

Werebeasts enter the map in stealth. The notification is deceptive, by the time you get it the werebeast has already had enough time to bite and infect several dwarves in a covert manner. Protecting your entrance and ground floor with wooden palisades and putting dogs on the entrance will reveal the werebeast before it has a chance of starting an outbreak.
Your staring hunter already has enough skills to kill the initial werebeast from a safe distance.
If you suspect one of your above-ground dwarves is infected, immediately activate your burrow and raise the bridge, stranding the potential carrier outside until the full moon.
If you notice any dwarves trying to covertly kill your own dogs, wall them in inside their rooms. Same goes for any dwarves with suspicious injuries.
After more than 2 dwarves have been infected, the disease will spread in an exponential manner. Your military dwarves and hunters can always survive by keping out, laying low, and making a list and checking it twice. Your civilian population is pretty much doomed, but as long as you can kill or wall off all of the infected and keep one hunter alive you can keep the fort going.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 04:22:50 pm »

If you notice any dwarves trying to covertly kill your own dogs
Wait, is that a thing? I've never seen that through several werebeast occurrences.
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Adequate Swimmer

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 04:56:41 pm »

If you notice any dwarves trying to covertly kill your own dogs
Wait, is that a thing? I've never seen that through several werebeast occurrences.

Dogs and "dwarves" are hostile to each-other, they will actively attack within a certain range.
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thefinn

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 06:21:15 pm »

There is absolutely no shame in going full turtle mode during the early years.  Build a drawbridge, and when the first Were shows itself, just lock yourself underground until it goes away.  Due to being dependent on the lunar cycle, they typically don't last more than a week.

This works 100%
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 06:56:20 pm »

I've survived several werebeast infections in this build and it all comes down to being prepared.

Werebeasts enter the map in stealth. The notification is deceptive, by the time you get it the werebeast has already had enough time to bite and infect several dwarves in a covert manner. Protecting your entrance and ground floor with wooden palisades and putting dogs on the entrance will reveal the werebeast before it has a chance of starting an outbreak.
Your staring hunter already has enough skills to kill the initial werebeast from a safe distance.
If you suspect one of your above-ground dwarves is infected, immediately activate your burrow and raise the bridge, stranding the potential carrier outside until the full moon.
If you notice any dwarves trying to covertly kill your own dogs, wall them in inside their rooms. Same goes for any dwarves with suspicious injuries.
After more than 2 dwarves have been infected, the disease will spread in an exponential manner. Your military dwarves and hunters can always survive by keping out, laying low, and making a list and checking it twice. Your civilian population is pretty much doomed, but as long as you can kill or wall off all of the infected and keep one hunter alive you can keep the fort going.

Are you sure about this? I’ve never, ever read anything about werecreatures “surreptitiously” biting dwarves despite being frenzied monsters of hate, and it seems to go against much of my general knowledge about how DF mechanics work. When dwarves are bitten by werecreatures they’re 100% normal and functional except when transformed, at which point you get a message and they go on a rampage unless you locked them up
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andrei901

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 08:53:11 pm »

I've survived several werebeast infections in this build and it all comes down to being prepared.

Werebeasts enter the map in stealth. The notification is deceptive, by the time you get it the werebeast has already had enough time to bite and infect several dwarves in a covert manner. Protecting your entrance and ground floor with wooden palisades and putting dogs on the entrance will reveal the werebeast before it has a chance of starting an outbreak.
Your staring hunter already has enough skills to kill the initial werebeast from a safe distance.
If you suspect one of your above-ground dwarves is infected, immediately activate your burrow and raise the bridge, stranding the potential carrier outside until the full moon.
If you notice any dwarves trying to covertly kill your own dogs, wall them in inside their rooms. Same goes for any dwarves with suspicious injuries.
After more than 2 dwarves have been infected, the disease will spread in an exponential manner. Your military dwarves and hunters can always survive by keping out, laying low, and making a list and checking it twice. Your civilian population is pretty much doomed, but as long as you can kill or wall off all of the infected and keep one hunter alive you can keep the fort going.

Pretty sure a good chunk of this is wrong. Werebeasts don't enter the map in stealth, you just don't know they're werebeasts until the lunar cycle. I would say that it is very rare to get a notification only after someone has been bit, though when you *do* get the notification, be prepared to lose the closest dwarf or two depending on where your military is.

Archers are of course the preferred method of were-beast murder, but your woodcutter, drafted, will likely turn the werecreature into werecreature new york strip. Miners are pretty good too, but they need a relatively lucky shot to avoid biting. Chopping weapons have a tendency to remove limbs, reducing the speed of the creature, and therefore exposing yourself to fewer potential infections.

As far as initial military, I usually try to smelt an axe or two out of any metal I can find ASAP. This is usually pretty easy, digging out a sizeable stockpile and your bedrooms/initial workrooms is very likely to net you some tetrahedrite, and if you throw up a smelter and a wood burner along with your first mason's shop, you can get four axes out of a single ore. Then make about a dozen wooden shields. Then pick the two most useless dwarves from the *first* migrant wave and give them an axe and a shield. Wooden shields are nice because they're very light and super cheap, though they will usually not last very long. I try to maintain a surplus of available shields at all times, because even a minor skirmish results in the destruction of most of the worn shields. Shields will occasionally block bites.

The most important bit is to limit the spread of infection. This is somewhat time-consuming. Once the mayhem is over and the werebeast is dead, you need to read every combat report. Every single one, from every person involved, not just the werebeast combat reports. If you see "The werecreature bites Urist McStabby in the 4th left toe (or whatever)" then it is safe to assume that the dwarf is infected. For early military without armor and skills, this usually means every dwarf sent will get bit. It may be advisable to only send one or two dwarves to limit potential bites. Anyway, for the dwarves that have been bitten, you have exactly one month to deal with them. This can be done in a few ways. I usually add them all to a squad, order them to all stand in a room a bit out of the way, and wall them in with a single pick. As transformations don't all occur simultaneously, eventually all but one dwarf will be dead. That dwarf will never die. If you left him a pick, now's a great time to do some single dwarf fortress inside your fortress. I usually make him start by building tombs for all of his comrades, which also need to be walled off from the infected dwarf. That dwarf has until the end of the earth to do it, though. Or you could individually wall the bit dwarves into their own rooms, if you don't want them killing each other. If you have a werebeast legendary armorsmith, for example. Making him useful while keeping him isolated might get !!FUN!! however. Just don't use doors or anything, werebeasts are building destroyers. Plus, now that you have a werebeast permanently in your walls, your fortress will never crumble. Everyone else could die, but your weredwarf will live on.

Don't know anything about the dogs thing, that's new to me. As far as I know, infected dwarves are perfectly normal as long as there is no full moon. That's why I usually give my infected a pick, so they can put up a masons furnace and build some mugs or something to keep themselves happy. Insanity is still a possible issue. If they go berserk, you can take the walls down when they're in dwarf form and have your military kill them safe from risk of infection.

Finally, I've found that if you have those two axedwarves training from the first migrant wave, then a rapid expansion of wealth and population to about ~80 is in order. Personally, I prefer sieges and cyclops to ambushes/werecreatures because they announce themselves and give me time to get the civilians out of the way. At a population of 80, I find that you get a lot fewer minor attacks in favor of somewhat consistent sieges. Just make your initial two axedwarves squad leaders for the entire 4th and 5th migration wave.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:16:31 pm by andrei901 »
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Cracklebones

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 12:11:56 am »

Sorry to hear that the first werebeast is such a pain for you.

Most my settlements are above ground for a year or two before I strike the earth and I've never had an issue with werebeasts [albeit sieges on the other hand...] due to the fact that I enlist one to two of my initial dwarves into lifelong rigorous training at the entrance of my site while putting my animal pen around and outward from my settlement entrance. I tend to place a handful of cage traps around the entrance too. Also add one, or three, of the first migrant wave into your rigorous training regimen and they'll train up considerably faster due to sparing.

The basic intruders [werebeasts, kobolds, elves, etc.] will be revealed by your livestock and you may lose your embark yaks to it before your first guardsman butchers them but I rarely lose any of my dwarves to such minor threats. I also set my cage traps a small bit from my entrance to cage anything trying to wander around my fortress. I've had quite a few Werebeasts show up, immediately turn back, then flee to be caught in my cage traps. They make for decent siege fodder later on.

Hope this helps!
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skoubi

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 03:41:52 am »

Thanks everyone for their prompt answers.

build doors with a bit of space between them, lock the doors, wait for it to transform back, murder the hapless naked individual.
That means that I build a corridor/maze/room that is the only way to get to my entrance from the map, and then use burrows and go step by step until the werecreature is inside whereupon I lock the doors. right ?

There is absolutely no shame in going full turtle mode during the early years.  Build a drawbridge, and when the first Were shows itself, just lock yourself underground until it goes away.  Due to being dependent on the lunar cycle, they typically don't last more than a week.
I like the expression and myself I am a Defender Type of guy, but what does that entail ?
Does that mean that I can't chop trees and use them for furniture. The stone I dig, I need for those crafts, especially for the first caravan.

Sorry to hear that the first werebeast is such a pain for you.

Most my settlements are above ground for a year or two before I strike the earth and I've never had an issue with werebeasts [albeit sieges on the other hand...] due to the fact that I enlist one to two of my initial dwarves into lifelong rigorous training at the entrance of my site while putting my animal pen around and outward from my settlement entrance. I tend to place a handful of cage traps around the entrance too. Also add one, or three, of the first migrant wave into your rigorous training regimen and they'll train up considerably faster due to sparing.

The basic intruders [werebeasts, kobolds, elves, etc.] will be revealed by your livestock and you may lose your embark yaks to it before your first guardsman butchers them but I rarely lose any of my dwarves to such minor threats. I also set my cage traps a small bit from my entrance to cage anything trying to wander around my fortress. I've had quite a few Werebeasts show up, immediately turn back, then flee to be caught in my cage traps. They make for decent siege fodder later on.

Hope this helps!

I presume that all of the above depends on what kind of embark skills you have and a particular plan for the early game. The demand for 2 carpenters, 2 Stonecrafters, 2 Farmers, 1 Doctor/Trader/Manager, 3 Diggers, 1 Mason, 1 Mechanic, 1 Furnace Op/Weapon-Armorsmith, and 1 Hunter/Butcher/Tanner, pretty much uses all of 2 waves before a werecreature arrives.
And of course, external fortifications are an added pain in the buttocks
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Astrid

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2018, 04:51:30 am »

Thanks everyone for their prompt answers.

build doors with a bit of space between them, lock the doors, wait for it to transform back, murder the hapless naked individual.
That means that I build a corridor/maze/room that is the only way to get to my entrance from the map, and then use burrows and go step by step until the werecreature is inside whereupon I lock the doors. right ?

Doesnt need to be a maze unless you like that idea, then go for it. Single corridor with doors on either end is usually enough, preferably behind your trade depot because your wagons cannot use doors for obvious reasons. That's the most simple solution for thefirst starting year/s.

On the full Turtle mode, the monster would not stick around forever, it will noodle off at some point, this game is a simulation which means, those things have wants and needs, they will noodle
off if they cannot get you. you wont be turtled in forever. just a few days/weeks.


And no a werebeast cannot bite while invisible, a Dwarf has eyes and ears for a reason, so have most other animals, as soon as it steps to close to a living being it is not stealthed anyore if it was stealthed
to begin with.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 04:53:19 am by Astrid »
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Staalo

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 05:54:27 am »

Weres will approach stealthed, but will attack the first thing they encounter and will reveal themselves when any living creature belonging to your fort notices them. So pen/pasture some expendable animals to strategic approaches to act as early warning and meat shield for your dwarves. Or, if you have no regard for visitor safety, designate an outdoor tavern to cover your entrance.

Once the were reveals itself, it's just a matter of getting your dwarves back to safety and deploying your defences. For weres even a single drawbridge is a suitable defence, but it's always good to have a militia squad training as soon as possible. Most weres are easy meat for even moderately experienced soldiers. If you don't think your troops are not yet up to it, remember that you don't have to fight weres, just delay them a day or two. They'll turn back into naked and confused humanoid soon enough and will flee to ravage your fort some other day.

Oh, and since weres will attack anything they encounter, keep a watch on combat reports. If you see a visitor getting mauled by seemingly thin air, it's time to hit the civilian alert and prepare your defences. That's a were en route to your fortress, just pausing for a quick stealthy snack.
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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 06:29:35 am »

Yeah, a door can hold back werebeast quite well. Moats, multiz walls, etc...Those are largely aesthetic projects you do once secure.

If you're willing, you can 'wall' of near dwarf area edges with wood floodgates as a bait for werecreatures. It's going to be a substantial effort with 7 dwarves, though, though certainly smaller than moat + 2z walls.


I don't know how many embarks points you use, but 154 gets you:

1 iron anvil
2 flux
1 limonite boulder
1 cassiterite
1 malachite
2 bituminous coal

, enough to armor two dwarves with steel weapons and full iron/bronze cover(helm/mail/gauntlets/high boots) with steel cutting weapons.

@andrei901: Yeah, they do enter the map in stealth (stealth weremammoths included), but they don't rehide unless one retires-unretires.

Adequate Swimmer

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Re: That First Werecreature....
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 06:44:32 am »

@andrei901: Yeah, they do enter the map in stealth (stealth weremammoths included), but they don't rehide unless one retires-unretires.
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