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Author Topic: Fallacy's BYOR 4: We're Done Here  (Read 92775 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #705 on: October 03, 2018, 03:30:36 am »

Auction complete! Nobody has won the auction! Such sad!

((Apparently Caz didn't actually place his bid notification in thread as required.))
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 04:42:04 pm by FallacyofUrist »
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A Thousand Treasures (And You).

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

IcyTea31

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 1: Er, What (13/12)
« Reply #706 on: October 03, 2018, 04:29:14 am »

Sure. Tbh the money thing was actually the opposite. I wanted to make sure that anyone with any more money wouldn't bid by loudly saying that I wanted to see who would reveal their money... so they wouldn't. Before you claimed you were rich I didn't even know anyone would have such a role (though seemed like a likely mechanic).
This doesn't match with what you've said before. It's too little, too late to claim that it's all been a gambit when you've already almost been lynched for it, and still aren't quite off the chopping block. Why didn't you say this before?

Quote
Scum doesn't have to fearbeing blocked by scum. But they do have to fear being blocked by town. You claimed that you're a roleblocker, but somehow scum shouldn't fear you, because you won't block them, because you aren't town.
In a normal game, claiming a power role as town gets you killed by scum. Claiming a power role as scum doesn't hold the same risk, because a town vigilante would hesitate in attacking a claimed power role unless there was reason to believe it to be false.



Yeah, this just does not make sense. Caz is your only strong scum lead, yet you only voted for them towards the end of the day while also asking for an extension? And the claim that you were doing so as a tiebreaker rather than because you actually thought Caz was scummy. That means you either had no scum leads at coming into the final hours of the day, or you were lying about your motivations then, or you're lying about your reads now. None of those look good to me.
The case is partly the first. My reads were badly out of date due to my absence over the weekend, so I placed an extension vote to give me time to read the backlog of posts and get up to date, and a tiebreaker vote in case the extension didn't go through, based on previous play and reads. The read list you quoted was something I put together after this and is more up to date.
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Teneb

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #707 on: October 03, 2018, 07:25:59 am »

Apologies for not posting, but I've been crazy busy. I'll have enough time to post in a few hours.
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TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #708 on: October 03, 2018, 08:13:04 am »


Why didn't you lie, then? Securing the waffles and fighting back as defensively as you did would already imply you're worthwhile for mafia to block. Giving a few hints towards a weak role would have taken attention away from you. You put yourself in a situation that's lose-lose if you're town, but a theoretically valid mindgame if you're scum.[/quote]

Why is it a theoretically valid mindgame for scum? Your conclusions just sound like wifom to me. I could be lying about having a strong role just as easily to draw scum roleblocks away from more powerful players. Also these questions just seem like you went back to rolefishing like you were doing at the start of d1 lol.

Quote
At this point of the game, we use what we have, and we don't have a lot. But better to spin the wheel than let scum decide the lynch, no?

why do you post that like it's some wild revelation? no shit, random lynching is better than a no lynch. but spending 40 pages to figure out who that is is 3094832098 overkill. I'm a bit happier now that the extend happened (even if we don't get night action information, the voting info is at least useful forms of evidence) so we're not going 100% blind.
[/quote]


Well Caz? What is going on here.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #709 on: October 03, 2018, 09:28:02 am »

I think that quote formatting gave me cancer. Preview your posts, folks.
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webadict

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 1: Er, What (13/12)
« Reply #710 on: October 03, 2018, 10:01:38 am »

I... don't...

I lost my motivation to support you. I'm gonna side with piratejoe on this one. I'll vote Caz. Or Deus (desu [Doopliss]). I don't even know anymore.

My brain is essentially fried at the moment. I'm incredibly tired because I've been sleeping on the floor waiting for a real bed, and I've had just about the worst couple of days in a while.

I'm moving TricMagic up to your spot in the list. Probs a bit higher, what with the freakout. Shows he's pretty Town. Super Town, even.

I don't understand Caz's reasoning in this post. I think I'm gonna trust everyone else that I'm the stupid one here because I've failed completely to see what I need to.

mannn


what happened to your Deus case?  You had convinced me.
I hate that people are both listening to me and calling me scummy. Like, pick one. It's making me incredibly paranoid.
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TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #711 on: October 03, 2018, 10:17:36 am »

Can we get a VoteCount Fallacy? Day's end approaches. Again..
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piratejoe

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #712 on: October 03, 2018, 10:31:52 am »

Alright, since I have the time...

Caz
Please give everyone an actual reason to not lynch you in the next few hours we have left, and actually give a proper argument without conveniently forgetting anything, purposely misinterpreting what was said to you or lying. Because you have already built yourself the Moslem that will be your tomb, what you say next will either seal you in it or possibly give you some time out of it to maybe deconstruct it.

Webadict
Why do you seem to trust people so easily? Are you using your gut and a few tells you think are emotional based or is it something else? I'm genuinely curios as to what exactly made you trustful of someone like Caz in the first place, along with a few of your other judgements on the last list you posted.

Shakerag
Do you have an up to date list of people you trust and distrust at the moment and if so are you willing to share it?

TBF
Can you contribute to anything that is going on in any substantial way or at least speak up please?


Okay, this wasn't the best or what I had in mind but throwing a bunch of questions out and hopefully getting good answers will help with some judgements and possibly lead to me getting a debate with one of you going allowing me to get further judgements based on that.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #713 on: October 03, 2018, 10:41:37 am »

Before I forget: Caz.
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webadict

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #714 on: October 03, 2018, 11:35:08 am »

Alright, since I have the time...

Webadict
Why do you seem to trust people so easily? Are you using your gut and a few tells you think are emotional based or is it something else? I'm genuinely curios as to what exactly made you trustful of someone like Caz in the first place, along with a few of your other judgements on the last list you posted.
Hey, me too. And I slept a little better last night.

Honestly, it's not so much that I trust people easily. Or maybe it is. I'm not entirely sure. Frankly speaking, logical debates in this game are just as difficult to parse as any other argument. There's not really any good ways to do it. I find that an emotional reading of other people's posts are a much better way to do it.

Or, I did, until people called me scummy but voted for Deus anyway. That just makes me fear that Deus might be Town and then he gets lynched and it just moves directly into my own lynch. Which is a MUCH worse alternative that had I just been lynched alone. If Deus is scum, it turns out peachy-keen, but then what was scummy about me? It really screws with my compass.

Of course, that type of thinking is scummy, but I'm sort of still paranoid, which isn't all that rational to begin with. I can only try to rationalize it.

Essentially, I'm likely emotionally compromised.

I was thinking Caz was Town based on his buying of the power on Day 1. I actually think his defense was just fine, and it really put me at odds with IcyTea because they were arguing about stupid garbage. If I had to re-review it, it's not really anything special. It's not a Town move, but it's not a scum move. It's just a power move.

I would actually not be opposed to Caz being lynched now. If you are voting for him, it's likely that he IS scummy, because I think you're more likely Town than not.

But, that just raises the question that's continually plaguing me: How can I trust that feeling if I can't even trust my feeling on scum picks? It's like it's own downward spiral, where I continually question everything until I've neutralized my thinking and picks.

Are you starting to see the issue? I'm scummy because I can't make up my mind, but I can't make up my mind because I'm trying to be helpful to Town, but I can't be helpful to Town because I'm thinking about how scummy I am. Each issue only compounds itself upon the last, and now I'm drowning in more and more problems.

Who do I trust? I can't rationalize just following someone else's train of logic without supplementing my own, but then I'm just a petty follower, which has worked occasionally in games, but in those games, I could always praise the potential sweet grip of death by scum in those games as a last resort for everything. There is no such thing in this game. The only way out is to do so poorly that you get lynched. Frankly, that's terrifying, but probably only to me. It's a festering type of fear, eating away at my patience and reason.

So, hopefully, that helps you understand where I'm at. I don't want to just "step away" from the game, because we literally have very little time left, and I'm sitting here just twiddling my thumbs trying to figure out what I even want. Do I want Deus lynched or Caz lynched? Am I screwed either way? I even have thought of dozens of other potential plans, including lynching myself. None of them stand out to me as THE plan.

Your thoughts?
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Teneb

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #715 on: October 03, 2018, 12:03:22 pm »

Wow, you sure went nuclear. I was pressure voting you because you decided to not claim, but I think given your response I'll keep my vote where it is. Its not like I didn't mention this was going to happen.

Sure, I can see why a town player would want to hide the fact that they can remove votes from other players, but then again so would scum. But if you're going to remove someone's vote, why do it now and not earlier?
Eh, I went "nuclear" because I was trying to see if THAT got a reaction either off of you or someone else, since I wasted way too much time with Tric's bullcrap. Only got one from you, and it's not a particularly scummy one. So unvote.

As for why the timing of the vote removal? I can only do it so many times.

You make it out to be a big deal that I haven't attacked you this game. But your posts have been reasonable for the most part, and while I didn't always agree with them, I could see where they were coming from. The only thing I found suspicious before this was that you, Shakerag, and Webadict all decided that DA was scum right when it looked like Caz was going to get lynched. There's also the fact that someone posted as Sheldon in the QT we both have access to, but if that was you, you've done a good job of pretending to be confused by that.
My read on Caz is neutral. My read is that Caz is tired, pissed off, pretty much given up on the game, but not scum. And I won't vote for someone I don't think is scum. DA? Scum as fuck. Weak posts, merrily coasting along, joining wagons without even trying to parrot others. Also: I ain't fake Sheldon. It's either you, which I don't think so, or someone else.

I've also pretty much given up on TricMagic. If they are town, they are a hassle and a waste of time. If they are scum, taking them out will actually benefit scum because can you imagine that behaviour on the scumchat?

I'll do another post to follow this one, otherwise I'll just sit on this one forever.
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Caz

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #716 on: October 03, 2018, 01:35:32 pm »

Auction complete! Caz has won the auction!

Caz has gained: (1-Shot, Night): Vindicate Me [target]: You surround your target with tiny squishing pistons that will disable all of their actions for the night, if and only if they attempt to take more than one night action.

Heh, I just noticed the name of this item. Pretty apt.

 
I've never actually played a mafia game where everyone has been so thick as shit. (tho thx Teneb, you're a sweetpea)

Enjoy sharing precisely fuck all between yourselves and enduring TricMagic through the rest of the game.
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TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #717 on: October 03, 2018, 01:43:09 pm »

Right, that doesn't explain anything on how you got it. As far as I can see, no one bothered to bid.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)
« Reply #718 on: October 03, 2018, 01:48:02 pm »

...TricMagic, are you fucking blind?
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 4: Day 2: The World Falls Over (12/12)(replacement needed)
« Reply #719 on: October 03, 2018, 01:56:21 pm »

Bid
Literally my first post on start of day was a bid.
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