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[Maximum Spin]

No. This is just another improbable situation to try to avoid the lynch. You're scum.

"another"? It's the same argument I've been making since the beginning. It's the same thing I've been suspecting since I saw darkwarlock3 had the doctor power. There's one person trying to be reasonable about this between us, and it isn't you.

Ugh, screw it. The part of me that thinks you're going at this way too hard to be truthful is winning out over the intuitive feeling that you're not scum. I did think BHK was probably third-party anyway, so it's still probable you are. If this is really what you want, fine, randomgenericusername.

[IcyTea31]

There's a certain degree of reductionism in blueturtle's case(s): either Max is authentic town doctor or he's lying with pants on fire. While I agree that it feels unlikely for a "mafia" result to occur on another type of scum, turtle isn't fully considering how third parties might intersect with the main protagonists' claims and burdens of proof (especially Max's). I'm a bit put off intellectually, although my own gut still thinks it might be a case of town not caring about affiliation distinctions among scum.

While your point is sound and I agree with you, 'reductionism' isn't the word I'd use in my thoughts. I just get the feeling that Blurtle's words are very carefully chosen so as to not let anything slip.

[randomgenericusername]

No. This is just another improbable situation to try to avoid the lynch. You're scum.

"another"? It's the same argument I've been making since the beginning. It's the same thing I've been suspecting since I saw darkwarlock3 had the doctor power. There's one person trying to be reasonable about this between us, and it isn't you.

Ugh, screw it. The part of me that thinks you're going at this way too hard to be truthful is winning out over the intuitive feeling that you're not scum. I did think BHK was probably third-party anyway, so it's still probable you are. If this is really what you want, fine, randomgenericusername.

Your whole argument is based in improbable situations then. If you were suspecting it, why didn't you say it before? I am being reasonable: I have a scum result on you and I'm following that. The scum framer and town doctor is dead and you're claiming to also be a doctor and that you were framed, and I don't believe this.

So you're saying I'm now third party now? Why not scum?

[Maximum Spin]

Your whole argument is based in improbable situations then. If you were suspecting it, why didn't you say it before?

Because I thought it was obvious. "Everyone has a power role, all the roles are 'mostly vanilla', there are more players than vanilla power roles, THEREFORE..."; especially since darkwarlock very clearly has two vanilla roles mashed together, which thins the pot even more — you'd be making this same argument if somebody else claimed lover, or at least you should be, if you don't think it would make sense there then it doesn't make sense here — so you'd have to be an idiot not to conclude that roles are almost certainly being reused in different combinations or with different restrictions.

[randomgenericusername]

...Except that darkwarlock didn't have two roles in one. That's a negative modifier to balance the doctor role just like how I have Odd Night to balance the cop role. Have you even claimed to have a modifier to your own doctor role?

[Maximum Spin]

...Except that darkwarlock didn't have two roles in one. That's a negative modifier to balance the doctor role

Taken from another role, is my point. The lover is a standard mafia role, and here it's been glued onto the doctor role to limit the latter. Someone else with a lover ability, if there is one, ought to be at least as unlikely to you as someone else with a doctor ability.

Have you even claimed to have a modifier to your own doctor role?

No. Of course I have one, and of course it limits the utility of my doctoring, although in my case by adding a danger rather than requiring me to affirmatively risk death. I'm not interested in telling you about it, though.

[TricMagic]

... How many modifiers do you have.{Separate lines, I mean}

No need to say anything else.

Same question to Rgun.

[blueturtle1134]

@blueturtle: You seem quite sure that the only way Spin can back up his claim is with town-aligned doctor powers XOR by directing the mafiakill. Is there no other scenario where Spin has powers at least close enough to have a chance at simulating doctor? Mafia keeping hands-off wouldn't stop an SK, for instance.

Mafia... doctor? Hm, maybe. What would that change though? He'd be able to prove his case if a Vig shot Random, and the Mafia killed someone else somewhere else. Yeah, that would be the thing.

@IcyTea

And what makes you think I'm hiding something?

Mostly gut feeling, nothing truly substantial. You're reading as town, but there's something off, that I can't quite describe, in how you're making your case.

There's a certain degree of reductionism in blueturtle's case(s): either Max is authentic town doctor or he's lying with pants on fire. While I agree that it feels unlikely for a "mafia" result to occur on another type of scum, turtle isn't fully considering how third parties might intersect with the main protagonists' claims and burdens of proof (especially Max's). I'm a bit put off intellectually, although my own gut still thinks it might be a case of town not caring about affiliation distinctions among scum.

Remember, Random claims a result of "absolutely, definitely Scum, and not a third party like Cult, SK, or Mafia Ally". We know because third parties show up in flavor as "not fully aligned with the Dark Cosmos".

I feel like the case where Spin is a third party is identical to the case when Spin is Mafia, though. He can't claim what he is, so he fakeclaims... Can Cult have a doctor? I feel like no.

The only difference would be that if Spin is a 3rd party now he KNOWS that there's framing going on, or Random is lying. He also can't coordinate with Mafia. In that view the test he gave makes even less sense, because if he isn't a doctor he has no way to fake it. Then again, he has no way of knowing that the Mafia will even try to kill Random... though they might try to kill him... how does his actions make sense for a 3rd party?

Wait, what if Random is a 3rd party then? I feel like that's the same as if he was scum...

Both are using emotional arguments a bit, it's hard to see which is more valid.

[randomgenericusername]

... How many modifiers do you have.{Separate lines, I mean}

No need to say anything else.

Same question to Rgun.

Odd Night Cop. Said it multiple times.

...Except that darkwarlock didn't have two roles in one. That's a negative modifier to balance the doctor role

Taken from another role, is my point. The lover is a standard mafia role, and here it's been glued onto the doctor role to limit the latter. Someone else with a lover ability, if there is one, ought to be at least as unlikely to you as someone else with a doctor ability.

Have you even claimed to have a modifier to your own doctor role?

No. Of course I have one, and of course it limits the utility of my doctoring, although in my case by adding a danger rather than requiring me to affirmatively risk death. I'm not interested in telling you about it, though.

The fact that you don't want to claim it makes me think you're saying lies.

@blueturtle: You seem quite sure that the only way Spin can back up his claim is with town-aligned doctor powers XOR by directing the mafiakill. Is there no other scenario where Spin has powers at least close enough to have a chance at simulating doctor? Mafia keeping hands-off wouldn't stop an SK, for instance.

Mafia... doctor? Hm, maybe. What would that change though? He'd be able to prove his case if a Vig shot Random, and the Mafia killed someone else somewhere else. Yeah, that would be the thing.

@IcyTea

And what makes you think I'm hiding something?

Mostly gut feeling, nothing truly substantial. You're reading as town, but there's something off, that I can't quite describe, in how you're making your case.

There's a certain degree of reductionism in blueturtle's case(s): either Max is authentic town doctor or he's lying with pants on fire. While I agree that it feels unlikely for a "mafia" result to occur on another type of scum, turtle isn't fully considering how third parties might intersect with the main protagonists' claims and burdens of proof (especially Max's). I'm a bit put off intellectually, although my own gut still thinks it might be a case of town not caring about affiliation distinctions among scum.

Remember, Random claims a result of "absolutely, definitely Scum, and not a third party like Cult, SK, or Mafia Ally". We know because third parties show up in flavor as "not fully aligned with the Dark Cosmos".

I feel like the case where Spin is a third party is identical to the case when Spin is Mafia, though. He can't claim what he is, so he fakeclaims... Can Cult have a doctor? I feel like no.

The only difference would be that if Spin is a 3rd party now he KNOWS that there's framing going on, or Random is lying. He also can't coordinate with Mafia. In that view the test he gave makes even less sense, because if he isn't a doctor he has no way to fake it. Then again, he has no way of knowing that the Mafia will even try to kill Random... though they might try to kill him... how does his actions make sense for a 3rd party?

Wait, what if Random is a 3rd party then? I feel like that's the same as if he was scum...

Both are using emotional arguments a bit, it's hard to see which is more valid.

I don't see what do you mean with me using emotional arguments. So far only Maximum Spin has been using them while I have tried to use logical arguments and stay neutral. I think you might be trying to defend Maximum Spin here, as someone suggested that there's the chance you are part of the scum team with him and you are supporting his suggestion that I could be a third party like he just said.

[TricMagic]

Not my point..


So, your only role is odd-night cop. No Modifiers beyond that?

[Maximum Spin]

... How many modifiers do you have.{Separate lines, I mean}

No need to say anything else.

Same question to Rgun.

Me? I have exactly one ability, which I can use every turn. Do you have something different?

I don't see what do you mean with me using emotional arguments. So far only Maximum Spin has been using them while I have tried to use logical arguments and stay neutral. I think you might be trying to defend Maximum Spin here, as someone suggested that there's the chance you are part of the scum team with him and you are supporting his suggestion that I could be a third party like he just said.

I am mildly concerned that you may not know what emotional and logical arguments are.

[TricMagic]

Must be back a bit..

Was looking for when it came out that people had multiple slots.

The only one who seems to be claiming "multiple slots" here, whatever that means, is you. You've claimed just about every role imaginable at this point.

Oi!


That's not a bad point though..

I get the feeling you are completely missing subtext.

Moony had alot of one-shot abilities, and BlackWarlock had a number of modifiers. I just want to know the number you have.

[randomgenericusername]

Not my point..


So, your only role is odd-night cop. No Modifiers beyond that?

No, nothing else

... How many modifiers do you have.{Separate lines, I mean}

No need to say anything else.

Same question to Rgun.

Me? I have exactly one ability, which I can use every turn. Do you have something different?

I don't see what do you mean with me using emotional arguments. So far only Maximum Spin has been using them while I have tried to use logical arguments and stay neutral. I think you might be trying to defend Maximum Spin here, as someone suggested that there's the chance you are part of the scum team with him and you are supporting his suggestion that I could be a third party like he just said.

I am mildly concerned that you may not know what emotional and logical arguments are.

Explain why do you think that and why are you implying that I am wrong.

[randomgenericusername]

Must be back a bit..

Was looking for when it came out that people had multiple slots.

The only one who seems to be claiming "multiple slots" here, whatever that means, is you. You've claimed just about every role imaginable at this point.

Oi!


That's not a bad point though..

I get the feeling you are completely missing subtext.

Moony had alot of one-shot abilities, and BlackWarlock had a number of modifiers. I just want to know the number you have.

That's because Moony was an inventor, a role similar to a jack of all trades. BlackWarlock had a single modifier (Romantic), which forced him to pick someone as a lover.

[hector13]

Skimmed over the last page or so ‘cause I want to say something to RGU:

You’re not going to convince someone they’re gulty, broseph. Don’t clog up the thread trying to do that please. You have a guilty result, MaxSpin is clutching at straws to get out of that, and will say anything to achieve that as scum. This includes getting you angry and not looking for his scumbuddy.