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Author Topic: Mostly Vanilla Mafia: Gameover. The Smoke! It's In The Smoke! Was It Worth It?  (Read 93684 times)

Starver

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #135 on: June 27, 2018, 08:07:24 pm »

Ok.  You don't really want something as dull as a Read-list. I don't trust my own read that much so asking you lot to assume it has (possibly pants-on-fire) authority of any kind would by silly.

Generically, though, still one absentee. With nobody interested in voting them off like they did with BHK when the penultimate lurker. Was everyone so caught up with Tric's status (ironically, the most visible participant, doubling the next third most prolific poster) that lurking (plus or minus maybe an undefined BHKness) was no longer an attractive voting option?

Barring myself, for whom I'm maybe remiss in making full notes, BHK and Max have the lowest amount of combined notes (with both their 'Reads' abbreviated to that, and fully detailed elsewhere). But neither (even Max, who is voting me) give me significant vibes against them.

I've got 'funny vibes' from one person, accept the likely newbienesh of another (haven't seen them before, haven't researched their games-forum history yet) as an excuse for another, a third person is just too good at this to really assess them properly from their average daychat and someone is just crazy.

As per usual, no vote I could make right now would even get anywhere near a Hammer (if they exist, which they don't) and I have no particular wish or need to add to a bandwagon (especially an emptying one) nor try to start up my own orchestracart.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The various Reads of me have been interesting, just to pass on my appreciation. I know what I was trying to do in my post, and no-one has (outright said that they have) picked up on it. Which is good, because more chance that the wise and benificent are keeping quiet as they should, and the wily and malicious have missed my subtle hint. Interesting to hear that one person was waiting for me, though, when I was not (overly) absent at (as of my still writing) just one place below median activity.

Oh, and I know I could be trying to craft my exposure here (one reply per page, effectively, fairly consistently if you squish up double-posts) to look normal. But what is normal for me? Darned if I know.


But, to reiterate, I choose not to vote yet. If I vote to tip the balance at day end I will have needed a damnebly good reason for it, not a whim, so bring me to account for it as soon as you can. Tempted to vote-then-unvote our missing member (as good a temporary-vote as any) to allay those suspicions of having anti-Town powers only usable if I keep my powder completely dry, but I'm not sure that's proof I would unequivocably accept, given all the possible variations. Suggestions for better tests?


PPE:
Starver, as long as you're posting, please include these answers:

--You said you wanted to wait for everyone, how do you plan to respond as it looks like darkwarlock3 will not show up?
Well, I'm already posting my jumble of thoughts now without dw3, as you can see. One lurker I'd accept (heck, there could even be a Muting skill out there, and imagine if a person who was muting someone used that mutenes as an excuse to avoid questions... well, I'm not that person so I'm not doing so
--Do you feel the same about MoonyTheHuman, who has made approximately the same contribution?
Slightly different to Juicebox, who seems to be more equal in content than I, although admitedly some of my content was two limerick posts
--What benefit do you believe you might gain by not voting at all D1, if I understand your announcement correctly?
No benefit to me, game-wise. But significqntly less disbenefit to my own sensibilties, than otherwise, as somewhat waffled about already in a couple of parts of the above pre-PPE chatter. Nobody needs (or deserves) my vote right now, and there are plenty of other people with the willingness to throw weight around so it's not a case of global stalemate. If I vote, I want to mean it. Or at least be seen to want to mean it, which might not be for the same honest reasons. That's my thing, and I know it is. No reason to change.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #136 on: June 27, 2018, 08:08:34 pm »

Depends on how much that person was interacting with others really. You know their alignment, so you can analyse the interactions they had with other people, and the interactions other people had with them.
I felt this needed to be pointed out separately in green-text, because it's very true and important...

Quote
I guess my major contention is that Tric's lynch is basically an argument around the mechanics of a Miller (Miller, for those who are unaware, is a role that means the person will investigate as mafia, regardless of their alignment) rather than anything content-wise, which doesn't tell us anything about the interactions (specifically around the votes) that other people have with Tric.
... but I'm less convinced of this part. Tric has had enough interaction that I would expect to learn a bit from his flip, at any rate.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #137 on: June 27, 2018, 08:16:25 pm »

Generically, though, still one absentee. With nobody interested in voting them off like they did with BHK when the penultimate lurker. Was everyone so caught up with Tric's status (ironically, the most visible participant, doubling the next third most prolific poster) that lurking (plus or minus maybe an undefined BHKness) was no longer an attractive voting option?
Extra post for Starver's post, there's only one bit of this I really want to address right now: Lynching the lurker on day 1 seems unwise to me, unless we end up against the time limit with no better options. What do we learn from that, really? I suppose if we lynch dw3 and he comes up mafia, we could move on to the next-lurkiest, but I'm just not sure how sound a strategy that is.
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Starver

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #138 on: June 27, 2018, 08:17:48 pm »

Barring myself, for whom I'm maybe remiss in making full notes, BHK and Max have the lowest amount of combined notes
...to clarify, because it lost its original qualification during (what could laughably be called) editing:

I assessed BHK and Max as having the lowest information density (discarding the Readings list).

Juicebox and Mooney have the smallest collections of contributions, if my count is right, but their claims and my thoughts I extracted were as long (in my summised form) as BHK (one more post, started very late) and Max (second most prolific poster) where I didn't really get extra value from the extra posts, adding up micro-clues.

Not that this means much of a muchness, at this stage. When I get more data it might. Maybe night-data?
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #139 on: June 27, 2018, 08:24:12 pm »

Barring myself, for whom I'm maybe remiss in making full notes, BHK and Max have the lowest amount of combined notes
...to clarify, because it lost its original qualification during (what could laughably be called) editing:

I assessed BHK and Max as having the lowest information density (discarding the Readings list).

Juicebox and Mooney have the smallest collections of contributions, if my count is right, but their claims and my thoughts I extracted were as long (in my summised form) as BHK (one more post, started very late) and Max (second most prolific poster) where I didn't really get extra value from the extra posts, adding up micro-clues.

Not that this means much of a muchness, at this stage. When I get more data it might. Maybe night-data?
An interesting perspective. I don't usually see people regard idle chatting in mafia as a bad thing. What would you have preferred I do differently? That's a genuine question, I'm interested to know.

It's true that I do try to keep my cards close to the vest, as a typical playstyle, but I have my reasons for that — it's sort of part of my hunting strategy.
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Starver

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #140 on: June 27, 2018, 08:26:34 pm »

(Could have PPEd, but no reason not to double instead. If I don't avoid that anyway due to more posts popping in. One has.)

Extra post for Starver's post, there's only one bit of this I really want to address right now: Lynching the lurker on day 1 seems unwise to me, unless we end up against the time limit with no better options. What do we learn from that, really? I suppose if we lynch dw3 and he comes up mafia, we could move on to the next-lurkiest, but I'm just not sure how sound a strategy that is.
I agree. Though I already gave my own view on why "Voting for BHK 'cos they're one of the lurkers" didn't morph into "Revoting for dw3 'cos now we've got BHK talking and there's only the other lurker left". Namely that Tric got pummelled by a maybe-bandwagon(-for-bamdwagonning!) at around that time.

A delurk-yourself vote rarely ever goes to maturity. At least D1, when there are enough other people acting active-but-unwisely.
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Starver

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #141 on: June 27, 2018, 08:35:47 pm »

An interesting perspective. I don't usually see people regard idle chatting in mafia as a bad thing. What would you have preferred I do differently? That's a genuine question, I'm interested to know.

It's true that I do try to keep my cards close to the vest, as a typical playstyle, but I have my reasons for that — it's sort of part of my hunting strategy.
I'm not sure I (intended that I) said it was bad. In fact, I said that I didn't have bad vibes. Did it unintentionally read as a "despite" statement, maybe?

And my hunting strategy (buried deep beneath my verbosity, more by accident than design) really isn't so simplistically keyed to (apparent) informatiom density, but I did find it interesting to note. Then edited it around, requiring the self-reply to explain what was now plainly at odds with reality. By straight reading. Blame having had to put off the postmthat said it until after a long day, and then a somewhat-long (yet hasty) necessary thread catch-up process.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #142 on: June 27, 2018, 08:45:32 pm »

I'm not sure I (intended that I) said it was bad. In fact, I said that I didn't have bad vibes. Did it unintentionally read as a "despite" statement, maybe?
Ah, yes. To me it really did. Okay, I'll accept that you didn't intend that.
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hector13

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #143 on: June 28, 2018, 07:51:07 am »

D’we get regular extensions as well? ‘cause I want to extend but not use my personal one on D1.

Extend! Not personal!
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TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #144 on: June 28, 2018, 08:08:27 am »

I'm pretty sure that that is communal, which would maybe require a 4/11 vote. Maybe?

Time appears to run out. How many more hours till it does?


Also, Personal Extend if the day runs out.
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blueturtle1134

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #145 on: June 28, 2018, 08:36:03 am »

D’we get regular extensions as well? ‘cause I want to extend but not use my personal one on D1.

Extend! Not personal!

Can we agree on Vote Lynch Fallacy as the notification for voting day extension?

Also, yes I want a day extension.
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mightymushroom

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #146 on: June 28, 2018, 08:56:51 am »

Yes, we get a communal extension. I assume it would require either a majority or supermajority.

On the one hand, more time means more talking, which means more data, which is good.
On the other hand, I don't foresee much change in my overall reads, unsubstantial as they are, barring something unexpected.

Original deadline is 4:00pm Central/Forum Time, which should be about 7 hours.
Except by TricMagic popping a personal extension in bold you might have made it 55 hours, and going over the weekend brings us to a total of 103? We'll see when Fallacy checks.

I have family visiting next week, I don't know if extending D1 waffling into that will make it easier or harder to keep up with the game. Having the quiet of night in the middle of my week might not be so bad. Tell you what, if Tric's personal extension doesn't count and we're close to communal extension as the deadline looms, then I'll vote for it. But not yet.

PPE: I don't like the idea of using red for anything but in-game votes; if I want the moderator's attention for something else I usually prefer Orange messages.
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BlackHeartKabal

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #147 on: June 28, 2018, 08:59:02 am »

Extend.
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mightymushroom

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #148 on: June 28, 2018, 09:21:00 am »

Meanwhile, what I came here to say was some updates on my reads. Many are nulls for nonparticipation.
We are all guaranteed some sort of power role, but let's not assume that we win by night actions alone.

I wrote a complete list if anyone wants to demand it, but I think the highlight is this:
  • TricMagic: I deflected the wagon earlier, but that was mostly on analysis of turtle's post than of Tric themself. The more they say the more they look scummy to me.
  • Side Note: When I pulled apart blueturtle's argument against TricMagic I overlooked the miller claim. Simple oversight on my part since at the time I thought it simply a conversation lead-in of the same vein as the "gun for SK" line; but several of the people voting there later claimed it was part of their calculus, and Tric has since reaffirmed it. Now I'm wondering why so few of you wanted to push back a little for my omission; all y'all are wimps.
  • IcyTea31: Neutral to suspicious. I have to call you the chief wimp for continuing to say Tric's style is suspect while simultaneously unvoting. If that's not good enough, who do you like more for scum?


For all that, though, my vote right now is BlackHeartKabal:
You're practically lurking, or should I say lurking practically? Policy lynching the miller is an easy way to appear present without committing yourself to personal interaction.

I just said that I see potentially scummy things in TricMagic's posts. Can you persuade me that they really are scummy, enough so to get me to change my vote?
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IcyTea31

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia(11/11): Day 1: Evil's Afoot!
« Reply #149 on: June 28, 2018, 09:39:44 am »

Extend.

TricMagic offering their personal extend is a towny move in my mind. Gut no longer calls them scum, either.

IcyTea31: Neutral to suspicious. I have to call you the chief wimp for continuing to say Tric's style is suspect while simultaneously unvoting. If that's not good enough, who do you like more for scum?
Glad you asked: Juicebox. Leaving a quick vote in the same post as a "joke" and then not discussing it, only posting to defend oneself, raises my suspicion.

As for being a wimp, I realized the matter wasn't discussed enough and wanted to avoid a hammer. (Assuming it's possible, which hasn't been confirmed yet.)
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