Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PatrikLundell]

I know this type of thing is hard to predict, but a question about the Myth/Magic/Map Rewrite. Assuming the (hopefully) extreme estimates are correct it could be 4+ years for the whole update.  What I was wondering about is how modular that map rewrite code itself will be. I know the myth/magic stuff can't work without the map rewrite, but could the current game work with the map rewrite? If the rewrite doesn't break the game would there be any benefit to releasing that part to break up the Long Wait?

The map rewrite will break things in many ways (which is a major reason for why it hasn't been done earlier), so saves will not be backwards compatible. I've asked earlier in the FotF about a midpoint release where the map rewrite was done and the game stitched back together with mostly the current functionality, and Toady didn't see any point in doing that (my points would be to get something new to play with, plus getting some testing, but that was before the Premium release decision, which probably will result in Toady providing updates for the latest released version from time to time, rather than nothing for 3-7 years). I suspect Toady hasn't changed his mind since.

[squamous]

1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Or at least create civilizations in the dimensions that are added? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of raw data currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.
4. What exactly is the difference between armor levels 2 and 3 in regards to how entities decide use it? I know both correspond to melee units, representing chain and plate armor respectively  (with the exception of soldiers of a civilization, which can get level 2 or 3 chest and head gear), but I can't find much information one what causes a civilization or NPC to decide to/be able to equip one or the other.
5. In adventure mode I have seen NPCs in taverns wearing armor made from multiple materials that were exclusive to a single civilization. So it was wearing armor made from metal exclusive to Civ A, and also another piece made with metal exclusive to Civ B. I'm curious how that works. Do NPCs loot equipment or gain access to materials from particular civs by spending some time with them?

[PatrikLundell]

1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of things currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.

1. If Toady intends to try to support it he typically won't say it because of the backlash from people when "promised" things failed to make it it. I can't see multiple riders being a thing within the current scope, as it would probably mess around with things too much.
2. As far as I understand earlier answers the other dimensions effectively have to be a lot smaller than the current world (whether they are in total or just the parts you can reach doesn't matter too much), because of the resource explosion resulting from each dimension being a full world in itself (generating 10 histories, etc. with a significant risk of exceeding the physical memory, making thing slower, etc.).
3. "The near future" in my view is, at most, the time before the start of the big wait, but "the color of the sky" part seems to indicate the (first) Myth & Magic arc. It's probably a good idea to update the question to make it a bit more precise.

[squamous]

1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of things currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.

1. If Toady intends to try to support it he typically won't say it because of the backlash from people when "promised" things failed to make it it. I can't see multiple riders being a thing within the current scope, as it would probably mess around with things too much.
2. As far as I understand earlier answers the other dimensions effectively have to be a lot smaller than the current world (whether they are in total or just the parts you can reach doesn't matter too much), because of the resource explosion resulting from each dimension being a full world in itself (generating 10 histories, etc. with a significant risk of exceeding the physical memory, making thing slower, etc.).
3. "The near future" in my view is, at most, the time before the start of the big wait, but "the color of the sky" part seems to indicate the (first) Myth & Magic arc. It's probably a good idea to update the question to make it a bit more precise.

Regarding question 2, I suppose my main question would be can I make civilizations in other dimensions? That's what I'm most curious about.

[voliol]

-snip-

2. Physical memory issues should be null on the 64-bit version.

-snip-

As I recall, one of Threetoe's stories had goblins living in the underworld, so the answer should be yes.

[therahedwig]

Now now, to be fair, the physical memory issues would be on the user end, and as not everyone understands what ram/working memory is, quite a few people would end up dealing with issues that they don't understand they inflicted upon themselves.

But... you could have worlds that consist of two even-sized dimensions. And I thought the description in dftalk of worlds that kinda expand as you poke around in them was also pretty cool :p

[PatrikLundell]

@voliol: I said and meant physical memory, not addressable memory. I don't see DF being capable of exhausting a 64 bit address space, but once you've used up the memory installed in whatever (low end) computer you use virtual memory is used, i.e. disk space, and that's going to slow things down a lot.

While other dimensions may have civs in them, that doesn't have to mean that those civs have a fully fleshed out history and a complete set of habitations in a world. Alien civs can be reduced to something akin to a site government for the purpose of interacting with inhabitants of the "main" dimension, and the presence of such civs does not automatically mean they'd be playable in either fortress or adventure mode (in the latter case I can imagine a "visitor" from the other dimension playing in the main one, but it might be a fair bit of work to make it possible to play on the other side).

[voliol]

Now now, to be fair, the physical memory issues would be on the user end, and as not everyone understands what ram/working memory

Apparently including those people include me, as I totally confused the two concepts. Nevermind me, then.

[Bumber]

I don't know if anybody brought it to your attention yet, but somebody created a DFHack plugin that allows people to play multiplayer fort mode using their web browser. Everybody has an independent screen and cursor, and can even enter full-screen menus (unpaused) without affecting other players.

The thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176070.0
Demo video: https://youtu.be/477ioY1CXa8?t=77

[Prismatic]

Hi Toady, I've got a modding question which I haven't been able to find an answer to. What purpose does "REQUIRED" serve in the COUNTER_TRIGGER syndrome effect, and are there any other arguments which can be used in its place? For instance, the example vampire interaction contains the following line:

Code: [Select]

[CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED]
On a similar note, the wiki details 8 counters for use with the COUNTER_TRIGGER effect, but does not reference a source for this information. As such, are there any other counters available besides those included in the following list?

Spoiler: counters (click to show/hide)

ALCOHOLIC
CAVE_ADAPT
PARTIED_OUT
MILK_COUNTER
EGG_SPENT
GROUNDED_ANIMAL_ANGER
TIME_SINCE_SUCKED_BLOOD
DRINKING_BLOOD

[Eschar]

"Partied out"?

[Shonai_Dweller]

As Steam moves on to Villains and "stuff to do before the Big Wait" do you think you'll have another shot at cleaning up fortress unretirement? Or are the various bugs ("hostile" visitors who aren't, visitor number explosions, etc) caused by underlying issues that need save-breaking rewrites?

[PatrikLundell]

"Partied out"?

If that terse question asks what the term means, I would assume it is a count down during a period from the last party during which the character has no need to attend another. Since parties were removed/disabled in the needs rewrite I assume it currently does nothing.

[Dragonslayerelf]

Are there any plans for non-dwarven (or fort race) migrants that exist in your civ and mixed civs?

I've been wanting to play a fortress thats kinda like Dorwinion and has a dichotomy between two different species of sentient people working in harmony, but I'm wondering if mechanically that's something that's going to be in the works.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are there any plans for non-dwarven (or fort race) migrants that exist in your civ and mixed civs?

I've been wanting to play a fortress thats kinda like Dorwinion and has a dichotomy between two different species of sentient people working in harmony, but I'm wondering if mechanically that's something that's going to be in the works.

Take a look at Legends (or use a util like Legends Viewer) all civs are mixed already. Elf civ dwarves, goblin civ humans, dwarf civ goblins and all the civilized animal people and escaped necromancer experiments living in each of the main civs.

Migrants themselves, yes, seem to be hardcoded to being dwarves (or whatever your main race is). But you can make non-dwarf visitors into citizens already so mechanically everything is in place. Just needs switching on.