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[Madman198237]

I mean, Stirk's really obsessed good with guns, but if you DO invite him to join the game, make sure he realizes that he can only participate in one side or the other.

As for advanced weapons, where did that idea come from? We're already working with the most advanced modern weapons available, everything we do from here on out is some level of sci-fi.

[RoseHeart]

True. But if we have access to all modern weaponry "2017+" we may as well leverage it, and I can think of no one better to advise us.Stirk-via PM:

Hello Stirk. I am a player in a XCOM Arms Race.

The human team is discussing modern weapons, and I suggested you may be able to advise us.

Typically, the tech tree we would follow right now is to steal plasma weapons from the ETs and modify them. I'm not sure if you're familiar with XCOM games. But even if you are not, there has been talk amongst our team about trying to do something else besides plasma to throw the enemy off.

I was concerned that there wouldn't be anything we could use to compare with plasma. We have access to anything that is available today in 2017.

Is there anything that you would recommend we use to fight our enemy?

I am asking if the GM would allow you to come and have a talk. Of course if you did you could not join the enemy team.

I am familiar with Xcom.

Well the Alien's plasma weapons (especially early on) were not particularly impressive. A normal human in Kevlar can survive a hit from a plasma pistol for instance, and in the end they "only" deal around twice the damage of conventional weapons. Theoretically, high-caliber weapons such as a tank cannon should be able to outdo them. On the other hand, they are tier 3 weapons, kinda capable of blowing up a tank in one hit, and a normal human in kevlar also has a really good chance of surviving a grenade to the face. So it really depends how powerful lore-wise your game's plasma weapons are.

If you are looking for a new direction to take conventional weapons to compete in damage with, there was the OICW program. Long story short, they had attempted to design a "rifle" that shot small caliber grenades instead of bullets. They were designed so that they could explode around cover, hitting targets where normal bullets would be unable to. Theoretically, you could match a plasma weapon's damage if you had powerful enough explosives (though with how Xcom's explosives tend to work, they might be significantly less powerful). In the end, the project was cancelled for a variety of reasons, but working models had been fielded in Afghanistan to positive reception (the XM25 CDTE). Even if it ends up being less powerful, cover tends to be the biggest factor in Xcom games, and having a weapon that can mitigate it would help drastically.

Other than that, there are a handful of man-portable nuclear devices I could suggest if you are getting desperate :p. There are plenty of theoretical alternatives to plasma, but a lot of it depends on how your particular game works.

Thanks! I'll post this!

Notes:
-OICW weapons would help us be on par with plasma, but they are explosive.(Since the point would be to skip stealing plasma, this may be an option early on)
-If we want to explore other advanced tech, Stirk would need more details from the GM, and could advise us further.

  X•COM TRUSTEE   
/\ •V I G I L O• /\\
/\ \C O N F I D O/ /\\

[Happerry]

I'm probably just going to vote for designing laser weapons next turn's design, hopefully with some loot gotten this turn to help with the roll. After that, I'd like to see about getting some SHIV/HWP designs to serve as fire support (Hopefully with heavy lasers), and then I'd like to go back and see about training some tactical classes like the GM said we should look into if we want better troops.

Also the idea of explosive bullets is nothing new, and if we do go for them I'd think the thing to look at first would be Gyrojet rounds.

[Madman198237]

Hollow-points. It's easy enough for us to get a LOT of horrible things that are war crimes...when your enemy's standard infantry weapon doesn't burn them to death, that is.

[Happerry]

Hollow-points. It's easy enough for us to get a LOT of horrible things that are war crimes...when your enemy's standard infantry weapon doesn't burn them to death, that is.

My worry about Hollow-Points is that, by memory, don't they have shit armor pen? The enemy already has drones, we don't need to end up trying to use Hollow-Points against alien SHIVs or Mechtoids.

[Madman198237]

Easy enough to solve: Do special forces training, and have mixed magazines. Double-tap *everything*.

And I don't know if they're bad at piercing armor, though they probably are at infantry-weapon calibers.

[Cnidaros]

REVISIONS
NOTSOFTER: (4) Madman, Chiefwaffles, Happerry, Stabby
NOTSOFTER (expanded version): (3) strongpoint, roseheart, Cnidaros

SOCIAL
Strategyphase:
- Yes (1): roseheart
- No (3): Chiefwaffles, Strongpoint, Madman198237

Got no opinions on this strategy phase thing, but I support going for last turn's combat experience on the NOTSOFT revision.

[Blood_Librarian]

Honestly? I think we should go for a higher powered gunpowder rifle with better recoil management. That way we can use munitions that can steer themselves without worrying about magnets messing it all up.

[Madman198237]

I mean, do we REALLY need bullets that steer themselves? We're generally operating in close quarters, right? Close enough that random drone things can just appear and kill our soldiers, anyway.

[Blood_Librarian]

Well, maybe they wont steer around corners, but maybe they could steer from a shot that would would to a shot that would maim/cripple/ or even kill. This also stems form something easier to do, which is explosive (grenade or similar) rockets that steer themselves. Also, it is a bit of a tried and true sort of deal, where we can use alien materials ot do just straight up improvements (Tiny gun with a sniper rifle cartridge). With Exosuits, we can use ridiculous things like auto cannons or three barreled anti-material weapons with free reign, allowing us to develop things we already have rather then Try and play catch up in a game we already lost.

[Madman198237]

Eh, I think we should just train our soldiers well enough that they are capable of making shots count, instead of relying on the dubious ability of a smart-bullet to correct a bad shot.

[Blood_Librarian]

A man can only be so well trained before he reaches peak power.  A smart bullet, that is a weapon that can guide itself based on what it senses, what it is programmed to do, and any other variable has far more potential then correcting a bad shot. Concealment is slightly mitigated, as the bullet can hit the target without the person actually seeing them.  The bullet could also be fired into the sky, and have it steered into the enemy position With ease. This can also be more effective with explosives, as the weapon could be taught to fly over enemy cover and detonate where the enemy is flanked or exposed.

It could also be combined with materials that could change themselves on the spot to deal more damage. It could harden before impact on bone/ splinter when in the face of delicate organs, and again, correct a bad shot. ((assuming we can make the bullet "smart" enough to do that kind of thing.)

Also, Training our men  is not exclusive to smart munitions. Even the most accurate sniper or other personnel can miss. The skill of the soldier is also put into question, and it puts a higher skill ceiling as the soldier has control over the weapon in all situations. In later eras of technology, A soldier could theoretically steer the bullet, even after it leaves it's origin by communicating to the bullet while it is in the air.

The first iteration would probably just be a round with a set of programmable fins. The soldier would put in commands, and the bullet/grenade would follow those commands as best as it could, while also using its own systems to steer better into its designated target ( Painted Laser? IFF Sig? Thermal detection? Something along those lines.)

[Madman198237]

No bullet can hit someone who's behind cover from the shooter, you can't correct a flight path in that time. You're looking at times of MILLISECONDS or even less in which you can correct that path. You also can't make a bullet shoot up and then come down on somebody's head, the battery won't last for the miles it's going to travel upwards into the atmosphere before starting to come down.


No soldier can react fast enough to steer a bullet, they fly to fast. FAR too fast. You don't seem to understand the disconnect here. You can (barely) do it with wire-guided missiles and the like, but again, no human, near-human, or kinda-human has the reaction times necessary to steer a bullet---by the time they pressed the first button of the first command, the bullet would've already hit (or missed) its target.

[Blood_Librarian]

I will admit that i was talking about explosives for killing someone behind cover (Grenade detonates when they flank/make cover useless) when I was talking about cover negation. We are dealing with aliens are we not? I very much doubt they don't have incredibly alien technology that we could steal to make shooting up in the air and mortaring them with smart bullets possible.

When I said later eras of technology, I meant when our soldiers had minds much faster then now, IE something that very well could steer a bullet with the required reaction time. As it is right now, we will simply have to make do with ordering the bullets to go 300 meters and then turning down to hit someones eyeball before they actually fire the shot. I'm not stupid enough to make a person try and steer something that goes the speed of sound, that is why we will have a "dummy" computer do it for us.

Human "programs" bullet/Smart munition (grenade, rocket whatever), Human fires gun. Munition executes commands.

This lowers the skill required to kill something, while also increasing "skill ceiling", as this allows some wild ass Cherokee shots to be possible with sniper rifles.

[Madman198237]

That's still almost useless. You've got to know where your guy will be when the bullet gets there. But now, not only do you need to know where he'll be when you FIRE the gun, now you have to know it when you PROGRAM the bullet.

Also, no bullet will EVER be used in the ways you described. End of story. Grenades, rockets, yeah maybe. Bullets fly too far, too fast.