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Yes

4 (50%)

No

4 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 7

[ThtblovesDF]

Personally, sure.
I put up a poll.

Now after we have everyone thinking we are at war, wanna be besties?

[Gigalith]

I don't think we can really decide to make a ban for all future B12 games with just the players of this game. (For what it's worth, I voted "no" anyway)

[Cthulhu]

I also voted no.  It's an ecosystem, you can't take parts away from it.  You get rid of spamulet and next thing you know earth snakes are invading.

Also what about lifelong protection assassins?

[AlStar]

Also what about lifelong protection assassins?

The cost of entry for those are significantly higher - Construction 0, D1, 5 gems vs Construction 4, B4, 20 slaves. Personally, I think the increased time/effort needed to get them up and running offsets the OP-ness of the combo.

[E. Albright]

On one hand, they spew out two fliers per round, which is unpleasant. On the other, you need to give your assassin something else to do (like a spamulet) or else there's a risk they'll run into melee/point blank spell range and possibly get killed once their script expires.

A very straightforward balancing to the amulet would be to make it operate on Raise Dead mechanics instead of Raise Skeletons mechanics.

[Cthulhu]

On that note, how do you protect your dudes from spamulet assassins?  Lifelong protection's the obvious choice  to instagib the assassin when they fly on him, but what about earlier?

I went AI.  If it were further in the game I would've kept fighting longer but I've got one fort and three provinces and there isn't much to do beside recruiting and hitting end turn and the AI can do that too.  I suppose I should've risked the barbarians.  Blowing my expansion party on them would've been fatal but not trying also ended up fatal, didn't it?

[AlStar]

What ended up being fatal was taking two of my cap-circle's provinces. We probably could've reached some kind of agreement if it'd just been one, but, dammit, I need those resources. Giants be wanting massive resources, dude.

(Like, seriously - don't know if you've looked into the logistics of Hinnom, but my general-commander costs 101 resources, and my blessed units are 53 each. Even my non-sacred fighters are 32 a pop... FFS, my archers are 35 resources each.)

[Cthulhu]

I am aware, that's why I was aggressive.  Hinnom tends to crash and burn early and I was hoping for a quick second fort, I figured I'd lucked out with the weakest early game nation to go against.  Underestimated the double attack and didn't have my tangle vines and skellingtons out early enough to matter when all those fucking agarthans showed up.

There was no agreement to make because I didn't really have anywhere else to go.  The only way out of my hurtbox was through the barbarians (And even that wasn't gonna go far cause of fucking rivers and mountain lines everywhere) or through you.

[E. Albright]

On that note, how do you protect your dudes from spamulet assassins?  Lifelong protection's the obvious choice  to instagib the assassin when they fly on him, but what about earlier?

The only reasonably sure tactical methods I can think of are olm/illithid bodyguards and counter-spamulets. For the latter, you have a one-turn head start so more often than not you should win the spam duel even without considering the turn limit - but this only works for non-casters since the combat AI isn't a big fan of having mages use items. Bottled water or acorns on a caster with decent evocation could possibly do it, as could flight if you're thuggish enough. Trampling, too - either on the would-be victim or their bodyguard.

Outside of that, it's all general anti-assassin strategic ploys.

[Il Palazzo]

Trampling, too - either on the would-be victim or their bodyguard.

I remember my elephant bodyguards doing jack shit against you skelly assassin spam, Mr. Albright. (way back when)

[Karlito]

There was a nation-gen game a while back where my skelly spam assassins were wholly ineffective against the opposing hoburg chariot commanders.

[ThtblovesDF]

Nation Gen is silly...

(Round 26 especially is strange, how am I still alive)

And for this round, whoever holds 78/79, do not let Il Palazzo cross into the other water area, he would hold 20+ provinces that noone can really contest at this point.

[Il Palazzo]

Yeah, nice try, but neither is true. I don't have that many, and have you seen Tir Na N'Og? I'm pretty much stuck with the lake and part of its shores, and already border them from both sides.

But hey, why won't you tell us about your province count? I hear you've got 30+ provinces and nobody can compare at this point. (see, I also can do fake news)

[ThtblovesDF]

Cap Circle +3, rocking that shit-show like a boss- and its different, you know, you being underwater and there being 24 underwater provinces. The Map is evidence

[E. Albright]

I remember my elephant bodyguards doing jack shit against you skelly assassin spam

IIRC, they did better than the non-pachyderm bodyguards and may have killed one or two of the assassin horde - which were inferior casters-with-spamulets, mind you, so you weren't "enjoying" the full effect since they'd go off script and cast the fatigue-expensive spell versions instead of just summoning 1 skelly per round every round until the end of time/combat.

There was a nation-gen game a while back where my skelly spam assassins were wholly ineffective against the opposing hoburg chariot commanders.

4.10 IIRC. And yes, they were useless against those. Those damned hoburgs were just plain nightmares to fight; if they hadn't had strategic problems and unreliable allies I would have died a painful early death that round.

I also want to say my lizard scion chariot commanders in that round ran over more than a few assassins.

(Round 26 especially is strange, how am I still alive)

Spamulets OP pls nerf. That's it right there. Honestly, just doubling (or still reasonably, tripling) the price tag would go a long way, and wouldn't be out of keeping with some other stuff where you pay more for something with low research. The amulet has lower research than the spell it casts, after all...