Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[Parsely]

...so a guided mortar round now?

Um, ok.

There are mortar shells, land mines, artillery shells, tank shells, and cluster bombs that are designed for top attack against armor, most of them a product of the cold war and the digital age, so it's not a new idea, but most examples would probably be hard for us to recreate with current electronics technology because of how small everything needs to get.

Top attack is made possible by high resolution video cameras and computer pattern recognition only possible with digital computers, all in a package small enough to fit in a missile. Obviously this isn't possible with our current technology and it's not filling the intended role of a cheap, easy to use, man-portable, anti-tank missile. Certainly an idea that justifies itself as a design action though...

Step 1: Shoot missile into the sky.
Step 2: Have IR sensor on a timer.
Step 3: Missile scans the ground and locks onto an target, which will probably be a Bull.
Step 4: ? ? ?
Step 5: PROFIT!

FOR FUTURE REFERENCE I BLAME THE REVISION ON PIRATEJOE AND PARTIALLY ANDREA.

No need for a timer the user needs to set, he'd have to make calculations based on range, just have range be the input and let the missile figure the timing. If you have an IR, magnetic, or radar sensor then it should be able to tell distance to target at least, which will tell it when it's at the ideal range to start diving, so a range setting would do the job. A range setting would help it to fly past what you're not intending to hit so the sensor knows roughly when it's safe to start seeking for a target. Might not be a bad idea if RPGs aren't cutting it against Bulls, but wouldn't getting guidance into such small missiles be challenging?

Just to throw more ideas out there, here's an example where the missile doesn't need to actually fly into the top of the tank, the charge is instead angled downwards and you're supposed to fire the missile OVER the target and all the missile does is proximity detection. This sounds like the most realistic way to achieve top attack without needing to have guidance.

[ConscriptFive]

It was more of a joke than anything.  Just flinging shit in the air and hoping it locks on something is a hilariously bad idea.  You have to at least start with a target rangefinder "lock".

Also, you realize half those examples are GPS-based right?  Do you want to do a National Effort GPS satellite constellation now?

[Madman198237]

The idea is "Fire missile into air, missile reaches apogee, turns nose-downwards. Sensor spots hot rear deck of Bull, homes in on it. Impact, detonation, destruction."
You just have to be capable of firing the missile, JUST LIKE A MORTAR, at the rightish range to be aimed at a Bull. The IR homing system, nothing but a copy of the Piracy Warning's system, will take care of the rest.

[VoidSlayer]

It was more of a joke than anything.  Just flinging shit in the air and hoping it locks on something is a hilariously bad idea.  You have to at least start with a target rangefinder "lock".

Also, you realize half those examples are GPS-based right?  Do you want to do a National Effort GPS satellite constellation now?

That would involve making a series of massive orbital rockets, so yes.

Tereshkova: ( Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Kot, Nav, Madman, Conscript Five, Andrea, voidslayer
Forenian Jungle: ( Jilladilla, Powder Miner, Kot, Nav, Madman, Conscript Five, Andrea, voidslayer
Titan:

[RAM]

We really do need a national effort to fill the slot. If we can't have a helirocketcarrier then G.P.S. wouldn't be the worst option...

[Kot]

No need for a timer the user needs to set, he'd have to make calculations based on range, just have range be the input and let the missile figure the timing.

I more thought about a pre-set timer that lets the missile ascend to static altitude, but yeah it probably makes sense.

If you have an IR, magnetic, or radar sensor then it should be able to tell distance to target at least, which will tell it when it's at the ideal range to start diving, so a range setting would do the job. A range setting would help it to fly past what you're not intending to hit so the sensor knows roughly when it's safe to start seeking for a target. Might not be a bad idea if RPGs aren't cutting it against Bulls, but wouldn't getting guidance into such small missiles be challenging?

It might be, though I had a similar but different idea. We have a missile launcher that has a IR sensor on it's front, and when the missile launches it locks onto it's exhaust, then when you turn the launcher around the IR sensor sends a reversed (compared to regular missile) input through a wire, essentially giving us amazing guided missile that doesn't need joysticks or anything like that. May even attach a flare burning at higher temperature to the rear of the missile or someting (good thing we have sunglasses).

Just to throw more ideas out there, here's an example where the missile doesn't need to actually fly into the top of the tank, the charge is instead angled downwards and you're supposed to fire the missile OVER the target and all the missile does is proximity detection. This sounds like the most realistic way to achieve top attack without needing to have guidance.

That's actually pretty good idea.

We really do need a national effort to fill the slot. If we can't have a helirocketcarrier then G.P.S. wouldn't be the worst option...

I mean, after all, we have the precedent for space vehicles...

[Parsely]

Also, you realize half those examples are GPS-based right?  Do you want to do a National Effort GPS satellite constellation now?

Those are examples to show that the idea of a guided mortar shell is not unrealistic, which your post implied the opposite, not a proposition, which I thought I made clear when I said it would be too hard to replicate these weapons.

GPS is just one of many sensor inputs some of those munitions use to achieve accuracy. GPS is used for guiding a munition to the general location (tens to hundreds of meters accuracy depending, which is fine for artillery and large bombs) of far off targets or for communicating target locations to other GPS equipped units (Javelin apparently does this). IR/radar/magnetic/other sensors are far more accurate but at shorter ranges and those, especially for missiles, will take over for the final leg of an attack.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

We really do need a national effort to fill the slot. If we can't have a helirocketcarrier then G.P.S. wouldn't be the worst option...

I mean, after all, we have the precedent for space vehicles...

What, try to stick a platform for our ASMs in space?

[RAM]

stick a platform for our ASMs in space?

I was more thinking of getting a M.I.R.V. missile for those heat-seeking anti-tank missiles. Launch one over an advancing column 50 kilometres away and watch it scatter nearest-target tank-killers across the air-space. It'd be a fun stepping stone to reliable orbital vehicles.

Your plan is also excellent.

[Devastator]

stick a platform for our ASMs in space?

I was more thinking of getting a M.I.R.V. missile for those heat-seeking anti-tank missiles. Launch one over an advancing column 50 kilometres away and watch it scatter nearest-target tank-killers across the air-space. It'd be a fun stepping stone to reliable orbital vehicles.

You could just use a large artillery shell to do something similar.

[Olith McHuman]

* Olith McHuman points at the pile of fresh Uranium

[RAM]

* Olith McHuman points at the pile of fresh Uranium

* RAM indicates the lack of a delivery device for dirty-bombs, nor groundwork for the firing chamber of a fission gun.

* RAM then considers the options of nuclear power and railguns, and adds a note about railguns not being much of a focus in R.L. and *stifled comment* anti-fighter missiles in '44.

You could just use a large artillery shell to do something similar.

Granted, but there would be issues of mobility of long-range artillery and acceleration tolerances of complex warheads...

[Parsely]

"Who says dumb artillery rounds can't kill armor?"

This is a really interesting article about the effects of 155mm HE rounds on M48 tanks and other targets. Given this effect of artillery on armor I don't think we need precision-guided anti-tank howitzer shells.

[Devastator]

Granted, but there would be issues of mobility of long-range artillery and acceleration tolerances of complex warheads...

It doesn't have to be that big, and self-propelled artillery is a thing.

[Kot]

* RAM indicates the lack of a delivery device for dirty-bombs, nor groundwork for the firing chamber of a fission gun.

* RAM then considers the options of nuclear power and railguns, and adds a note about railguns not being much of a focus in R.L. and *stifled comment* anti-fighter missiles in '44.

Could use the ASM for delivery.

Granted, but there would be issues of mobility of long-range artillery and acceleration tolerances of complex warheads...

Well, Nazis thought the same about proximity fuzes, and then Americans made them... I think vacuum tubes are way more resilent than one would think.