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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [7/9] - Game Over  (Read 72039 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #330 on: May 10, 2017, 12:53:24 pm »

Ooookay.

I'm not nearly as suspicious against Fish as doll was.

Other than that, a few more questions.

Everybody: Choose two of these.
-What is the use of hypothetical RVS questions?
-Who is the most suspicious player currently? Why do you think that?
-If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?

Everybody: What question did you choose not to answer, if any, and why?
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A Thousand Treasures (And You).

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

Lenglon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #331 on: May 10, 2017, 01:08:42 pm »

Use of hypothetical RVS questions - check people against their claims if the situation comes up, but mostly gets an idea of the player's general mindset and give you some insight into which glass they'll drink from in a WIFOM situation.

Most suspicious player - Hapah. I trust my instincts. if my gut calls scum, there's a pretty good chance it's scum. Having said that, it seems to become far less effective when I become personally involved, so I don't expect it to get much else this game now that I'm in it. I do have some evidence to try to build a case on Hapah, but it isn't enough yet. still working on it. I'm sure I've missed stuff, just don't know what it is. it would be nice if my instincts would communicate a bit more directly sometimes...

didn't answer:

If you were the cop, who would I investigate tonight?

why? because it might actually give you information about my role and/or alignment to answer it, unlike your other two questions, and I want to see what you do about me avoiding it.

FoU: Whatcha gonna do about me avoiding your most useful question? first one just tested if I know theorycraft, and second just asked if I have any involvement in the game.
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Hapah

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #332 on: May 10, 2017, 01:12:46 pm »

Hapah, do you mind telling me what your read was of our four replacing players before they replaced, and what your read is of them now?
This question is a little interesting; why would the read change just because the person behind the keyboard did? It might change what I expect going forward but it changes nothing in the now. As for all the folks there were/are up for replacement (are these the folks you were talking about?):

wuba (now you): preoccupied, mostly. He's a little harsher than I remember but I think that's more on my memory than anything else.
doll(now FoU): A scum read based on the post I had above. Possible that it was addressed in the big wall-o-text they posted, I started to fall asleep in my chair so just let it go last night.
johiah: Either new or uninterested player, little bit of a town lean.
4mask: A little bit of a town read if only because I've got a bit of a scum read on doll (who is leading that lynch train), and that'd be one hell of a bus on D1.

All I've time for at the moment.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #333 on: May 10, 2017, 01:19:00 pm »

FoU: Whatcha gonna do about me avoiding your most useful question? first one just tested if I know theorycraft, and second just asked if I have any involvement in the game.
Well, mind, I think that the second and third questions are equal in usefulness, if different.

The second question gives me and everybody else something to investigate further. You think Hapah is scum, according to your gut. We can compare that to other things, now.

The third question is useful. If you had answered it... it also tells me something like question two. I can infer you would investigate Hapah tonight if you were the cop, because Hapah is most suspicious to you and you want to validate your instincts. If you answered question three and not question two, I could infer you think Hapah is scum for some reason, and then ask you why.

The two questions connect. I don't need you to answer my third question(though it would be nice), apparently.

So what am I going to do about it? Well, I'm going to ask you again to answer the question. It would be nice, and I can see if my prediction was off. If you refuse again, I'll let it go. I can't force you to answer anything.
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Lenglon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #334 on: May 10, 2017, 01:37:32 pm »

Actually, your read of me is off. I don't feel a need to validate my suspicions of Hapah just yet, I want to work off the daygame for that, pending a scumflip, I'd instead be checking either doll (now you) because I got a [unreadable] read of doll during my initial read of the game, assuming 4mask is lynched and flips town. if 4mask is lynched and flips scum, then yes I would be checking Hapah, going for a 2-day game for a quick win. if <not 4mask> is lynched, then I'd be checking 4mask to see if the lynch momentum he garnered today is misguided and to know if I should try to direct it elsewhere or not.
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Lenglon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #335 on: May 10, 2017, 01:53:22 pm »

Oh, and note that in the hypothedical:
4mask is lynched and flips scum
I'm the cop and check Hapah
Hapah is scum

scenario, I'd start off by just trying to build a wagon against Hapah without roleclaiming, because I need practice building wagons, but I'd make sure to roleclaim before the day was over in case of me being nightkilled, and there being no other scum remaining it would be absolutely worth to claim, force the scum to counterclaim, and then even if I'm lynched first, town still wins when they lynch Hapah afterwards.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #336 on: May 10, 2017, 02:20:51 pm »

Originally I was going to end the day 15 minutes ago. However, due to finding more replacements I'll add 24 hours so they have time to post. No further extensions will be granted today for any reason whatsoever.



The day ends in just under 24 hours (about 23 hours 40 minutes) and the votecount will be updated shortly.
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Lenglon

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #337 on: May 10, 2017, 06:16:38 pm »

Hapah:
do you intend to ever respond to doll's last post directed to you?

and yes, those are the four I meant.

Going to sleep, 4mask is an acceptable but disappointing lynch to me, he comes across as disinterested ?town?. Doll also reads as town to me. I'd prefer a Hapah lynch, obviously, but I wont be able to post via my computer until just before the lynch, and without proper formatting, quotes, etc, it wont be compelling.
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Hapah

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #338 on: May 10, 2017, 08:05:25 pm »

(PPE: Are my posts difficult to follow? I often just copy-paste out the bits that I want to address in longer posts but that could make it hard to look at the context around the original. If it's a hassle I can try to work in the links to the originals, if nothing else.)
I always just quote the posts I am replying to and then copy+paste the 'quote header' with the post details, as it were. It depends how you're working what works for you, I guess.
You posts aren't difficult to follow for me. The only time I miss having links is when I'm previewing my own post and I might want to look for a bit more of context for my own post to analyze, and that's about it.
Easy enough solution, little sad I didn't think of it. Thanks doll, if you're still reading the thread.

Re: short one-off posts: I think we're just of a different mind on these sorts of things; I'd call it a playstyle difference. I don't feel like I need to couch my opinion about the game length with real, meaty content, just as I don't expect any game content from people voting for an extend. For the latter, I'm just offering my two cents. He stated he wasn't really having a good time and this game wasn't going like he thought he would, and games are meant to be fun! I can't PM him about it, and no clue if he reads the banter thread, so how else would I convey it? I don't mind shooting a quick one-off response like that during my lunch break or between meetings or whatever.

Something missing here?
You've quoted the summary of the core of my case. Do you agree with it? If not, why not? If so, why aren't you voting 4maskwolf?
Yup, I missed it. I just think you're a lot more confident in your case than you've any real right to be, y'know? What happens if he flips town? Why are you already planning your D2 when you haven't seen the night or the lynch?

Quote from: doll, re: targeting roo's vote
I mean, doing that is great and all if all you want is to brag in deadchat or after the thread that 'I totally picked scum I'm such a great player lol' but if you want to actually lynch someone you've got to move the town, and different players in different situations are moved by quite different things. I'm treating roo as nearly confirmed town, and roo seems to think of me quite well, so all I need to move their vote is a decent idea and for them not to be doing anything much with it. On the contrary, to move hector's vote all I needed was the strongest case available to the town - to move johiah's I might need to bully him tangential to the game, to move you I might need to engage with your thoughts as you present them and speak on those topics on which you remain unconvinced, to move TheBiggerFish I might even need to get the rest of the town to be saying certain things. Mafia is quantized, and the basic unit (the vote) is actually rather large. This kind of contemporary, quantum mafia is why 4maskwolf and webadict talk about me like I'm a kawaii Bobby Fischer, but it's really just applying the principles that everybody knows they are supposed to use - if they want to win. (you can see this, again, in Jim's Wild West Mafia, where he effectively controls the lynch the whole game through - by picking what players are able to vote by selecting [as scum] who will die each night and keeping around a group he can control).
This was a very well-thought out response. FoU: Why do you think roo hasn't pinged you for buddying, but he did ping me?

Arrogant works. Webadict called it confident. The simple fact is that I knew that nobody could push a lynch on me today, and they didn't - because it would cost the town too much to be wrong and nobody has any overwhelming reason to think that they would be right (see: Webadict's commentary on this).
And I would counter that arrogance and confidence are similar but certainly not the same. Wuba is confident, but he's not getting ahead of himself either, I'm sure he will evaluate what happens in the night. You've already made your plans for after the lynch and the night phase: how can you be so certain of your course when the results should be unknown to you? Do you think you will be well-served by having to backpedal the next day if you change your mind?

I honestly can't comment on whether or not my claim that I got the 'wrong' number (which was, as it stands, the right number - for the initial situation described and on which that post was commenting) was actually true because I can't remember if I had actually been thinking of the other case at that time. I do know that the thing which made me comment on my 'wrong maths' was that I had gotten conjugated the live scum and the dead townie as empty points and treated them as only one non-target during my working out - in the later post. This whole chain of reasoning is curious to me (as a useless, academic thing - the whole ordeal seems rather pointless for you to be going through), because your premise is based on my intentionally asking about something which I did the odds on as being a great opportunity to exploit - for me as scum. Asking about this raised awareness, particular among the key 4maskwolf/Webadict/Hapah demographic that I was relying upon to sure up my technical analysis throughout the thread (i.e. to catch me if I ever fuck up my math).
I don't understand how you can dismiss my math out of hand, while with the same breath say that you locked a game up tight with math. As is stands, you did the math wrong twice (unless a lone mafia rolecop gets both the kill and the inspect in the same night, someone correct me if I'm wrong), and there's no way in hell that a lone scum naked-claiming Cop on D2 has a chance in hell.

I don't understand the bolded bit, unless you're saying it would make sense as scum for you to use that to entrap someone. In which case, it's worth noting that you have already lined me out as your D2 lynch, yeah?

Leng: It looks like ya messed up the spoiler, but I believe I addressed all the bits that were supposed to be in it. Please let me know if there's something I haven't. (PPE: Oh you fixed it next post, why didn't I read ahead lol)

It's tomorrow, and I just read the entire thread in the past few hours, surely the one post isn't too much to ask of you.
God forbid I have something else to do during the workday.

Everybody: Choose two of these.
-What is the use of hypothetical RVS questions?
-Who is the most suspicious player currently? Why do you think that?
-If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?
-They can help you get a sense of where players you are unfamiliar with stand or an idea on how they approach the game.
-Doll(which I guess is now you?) for mannerisms and a mindset that is very unusual to me.

Hapah:
do you intend to ever respond to doll's last post directed to you?
Yes? Is there some reason I wouldn't? I was already tired when I saw down and saw that doll has to split into three posts, when the char. limit is 40k on one. I don't mind a little light reading before bed, but there's no way I was gonna be able to slog through that and form a response that night.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #339 on: May 10, 2017, 08:33:35 pm »

The day ends in just under 24 hours (about 23 hours 40 minutes) and the votecount will be updated shortly.
Can I do it instead? :P

I mean there's no bias if I help you out in doing it as I assume busyness is had for everyone involved (the only bias I could see is 'Scum IC doing something with some connection to the lynch' but that'd be pretty >_>'ey)

Hapah (1):  Lenglon
{***} FallacyofUrist (2): johiah, 4maskwolf
[R] johiah (2): Hapah, Gentlefish,
Gentlefish:
{*} hector13:
TheBiggerFish:
roo:
{R} 4maskwolf(4): FallacyofUrist, TheBiggerFish, roo, hector13
{**} Lenglon:

Not voting:

People with [R] have requested a replacement.
*Hector13 is Doubloon-Seven. Hector13 is an IC now.
**Lenglon is webadict. She is not an IC as his position was transferred to Hector13.
***FallacyofUrist is doll. Usually long names are shortened into abbreviation.

It was noted that some people who had requested a replacement still have their votes on people--I have taken the liberty to replace their names respectively.


Day 1 ends Wednesday, May 10th at roughly 2pm forum time. There are no more extensions available.
Quote
May 10, 2017, 08:33:35 pm
(As of this relative post writing)

...Also, dudes? The day probably just ended BUT I should seriously note the OP rules on extensions and replacements must be followed. That means to you, TDS. :P
While I do explicitly note that there is no extension of time in the OP (and...against my memory, I always remember there was a 24 hour+ per replacement, but I think that was in Mephansteras' games so I assumed), I do believe this should be added to the BMs, and I vote on this as an IC.

Spoiler: Flavor (click to show/hide)
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hector13

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #340 on: May 10, 2017, 09:08:07 pm »

I think the day was extended 24 hours, at least for FoU and Lenglon replacing in.

Presently I'm not entirely comfortable with 4mask being lynched, but as they're being replaced it means one fewer person to find to come into things. Bit of a pickle.

In saying that, this is a game which it's feasible the entire town gets replaced. I might like to see that, some day...

Proper post up tomorrow. Hopefully.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #341 on: May 10, 2017, 09:12:02 pm »

I think the day was extended 24 hours, at least for FoU and Lenglon replacing in.

Presently I'm not entirely comfortable with 4mask being lynched, but as they're being replaced it means one fewer person to find to come into things. Bit of a pickle.

In saying that, this is a game which it's feasible the entire town gets replaced. I might like to see that, some day...

Proper post up tomorrow. Hopefully.
Since I'm fully in my IC and impartial voice everytime I post here, I'd say that it is--even in regular games of Mafia, think of it like in meatspace if a person leaves for the CR or gets busy and goes away for a few and you still run the game with a day end of tomorrow or something. Dude's still not there, but you've got info from what they did, and this is still pertinent; you have to ensure if it is valid or reliable though, as if all your reads on them are behavior alone, you have to justify its applicability--behavior is situational, and while it may be consistent within a long-term (ie whole game) timeframe, it does not necessarily represent ALL of what the person can do or is.

Think well before someone asking for replacement is lynched--this is towards the background and context, as Mafia is a timeline of a continuum. If you can spare the time to be active--do so. You practice not just being active for the game's sake, but awareness training. This may help you later on on totally disconnected ventures, because it's proactivity in a way.

Also all my 'yous' here are generalized and plural. :P
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #342 on: May 10, 2017, 09:29:50 pm »

Tiruin: I already extended the day 24 hours until tomorrow. And yeah, it's fine if you do votecounts if I haven't posted one in a while; I have been fairly busy.



Several new people join the discussion. Introducing:

origamiscienceguy: He's from a country that totally totally has no nuclear weapons. None at all. Except for the dozens of nuclear tests they've conducted in the last few years.
Leglon: A senior diplomat from a former superpower in South America. The country's economy might have collapsed, but they still have an extensive supply of nuclear weapons.
hector13: The vice-president of an aggressively expansive North American country. More accurately,
the North American country, since it absorbed the nations about it. You vaguely remember something about unpaid debts and a wall, but it was before your time.

All of them look fairly power-hungry and you don't really trust them. Not that you trust anyone here.




Hapah(1): Lenglon
FallacyOfUrist(2): johiah, 4maskwolf
johiah(2): Hapah, Gentlefish
Gentlefish:
Doubloon-Seven hector13:
TheBiggerFish:
roo:
4maskwolf origamiscienceguy(4): FallacyOfUrist, TheBiggerFish, roo, hector13
webadict Lenglon:

Not voting:



The day ends Thursday, May 11 at 2pm forum time, roughly 16.5 hours from now.



origamiscienceguy is replacing in for 4maskwolf. johiah is still up for replacement.
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: Two replacements needed
« Reply #343 on: May 10, 2017, 10:09:04 pm »

Sweet. It's good to be playing a game that is not stuck in forever rvs.

It's late here, so I'll read the game tomorrow, and figure out why everybody seems hates me. Sweet Dreams.

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roo

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Re: Beginner's Mafia LXI - [9/9] - Day 1: One replacement needed
« Reply #344 on: May 10, 2017, 11:51:52 pm »

Ooookay.

I'm not nearly as suspicious against Fish as doll was.

Other than that, a few more questions.

Everybody: Choose two of these.
-What is the use of hypothetical RVS questions?
-Who is the most suspicious player currently? Why do you think that?
-If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?

Everybody: What question did you choose not to answer, if any, and why?

At any point was this post cut down and made shorter? Did you have other questions or commentary? Methinks you were writing up a different sort of post. Or am I wrong and I'm coocoo for cocoa puffs? Also what a terrible thing you just did. Why are trying to get us into rvs again after all the effort I put into getting us out? Do you have nothing to discuss? Nothing at all in the current thread interests you or piques your curiousity? You have over 10 pages worth of content and this is the first impression you choose? You have fallen very greatly in my list of town reads.

Be more like that legion guy he's come to play.

@ogs I'm willing to change my vote to hapah/gentle/hector/fallacy in that order. Hector and fallacy are about the same tho.
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