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Author Topic: The Immortal Goats Head problem  (Read 1645 times)

AMTiger

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The Immortal Goats Head problem
« on: April 14, 2017, 04:57:57 am »

So basically, i have come here begging for help in a time of direst needed.
A necromancer turned up at my fort, and the militia chased him off easy as anything. But before he left he raised from the dead the head of a mountain goat.
It seems like it can't actually hurt my dwarfs, even the non military dwarfs who have joined the fight are having attacks miss, pass through or bounce off them.
But it's been over a season. Every brave dwarf that passes by gets dragged into the fighting, and all the others get stuck standing at a safe distance watching.
I finally noticed it was a serious problem not just a nuisance when militia dwarfs started passing out of hungry, thirst or over exhaustion.
Ordering everyone on alert into restricted warrens finally got them away from the fighting.
But it's still out there, right in front of my main gate where everyone needs to walk to get to the mines, pick fruit, everything basically.
Fighting an endless war of missing and then not being effected by any blows struck against it's brainless, hornless, eyeless, earless, mangled skull with the tourist philosopher and acouple visiting warriors.

Short of pumping up magma in the hope drowning the surface would be rid of it, any ideas as to how to put an end to this head?
Or will I just have to carve out a new entrance and abandon that corner of the map to the skull of a goat?
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NJW2000

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 05:13:06 am »

Atom smashing? I.e. repeated raising and lowering of a drawbridge on it?

Over 50 z level fall, though that's a little drastic...

Just lure it somewhere and lock it up?
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One wheel short of a wagon

AMTiger

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 05:24:05 am »

Any dwarfs going near it, would either panic and run or start fighting, so there's no way to build a bridge on it. and im not sure if it can move? being perpetually surrounded by visitors fighting it atleast gives it no reason to try?
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NJW2000

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 05:38:15 am »

Hollow out the space below it, channel around it, so it (and a dozen visitors) falls into a pit. Perhaps with an atom smasher already in place.
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One wheel short of a wagon

PatrikLundell

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 05:58:07 am »

This is a well known, annoying bug. If you're using DFHack you can use the command "exterminate him/her" with the head selected, and it will be replaced by a puff of smoke [literally].
Using vanilla cage traps and luring it into those is probably the easiest alternative. If the head is stationary you can dig out a 3*3 frame below it, leaving the center tile intact, place cage traps in the 8 tiles dug out, and then dig a ramp up to the head. That should cause it to fall down and either get trapped in a cage trap, or be contained by them.
If you've got multiple combatants in the tile together with the head I'd cage trap the corridor as well, as combatants may dodge into traps and get caught by them, so you want to make reasonably sure that doesn't open a way into the fortress for the head.
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anewaname

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 02:20:29 pm »

Fighting an endless war of missing and then not being effected by any blows struck against it's brainless, hornless, eyeless, earless, mangled skull with the tourist philosopher and acouple visiting warriors.
If those visitors are still engaged in combat, and you pulled your dwarfs out of the fight successfully using an alert, you will be facing two bugs, the "unkillable head" bug and this one.

While those visitors are alive and engaged, any of your dwarfs that were involved will idle and not take new jobs. So when you attempt the methods others have posted, you may need to assign new dwarfs to some of those labors like mechanics or mining, to ensure that someone will take the job.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Fearless Son

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 03:57:15 pm »

Using vanilla cage traps and luring it into those is probably the easiest alternative. If the head is stationary you can dig out a 3*3 frame below it, leaving the center tile intact, place cage traps in the 8 tiles dug out, and then dig a ramp up to the head. That should cause it to fall down and either get trapped in a cage trap, or be contained by them.
Bonus for using this method:  You get to place a cage with an immortal goat head in it as the ultimate curiosity shop centerpiece. 
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AMTiger

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 05:15:09 pm »

Thanks! Undermining worked to get rid of it!
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Pseudo

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 07:32:51 pm »

Another approach is to build a floor above it and then cave said floor in.
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bloop_bleep

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 08:39:46 pm »

If those visitors are still engaged in combat, and you pulled your dwarfs out of the fight successfully using an alert, you will be facing two bugs, the "unkillable head" bug and this one.

I think that if you place a bunch of levers in the alert burrow, use the profile menu so that each lever only allows one dwarf from the fray to operate it, and then designate them all to be pulled, the dwarves will follow their burrow order. I faced the same bug before.
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anewaname

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 12:20:43 am »

If those visitors are still engaged in combat, and you pulled your dwarfs out of the fight successfully using an alert, you will be facing two bugs, the "unkillable head" bug and this one.

I think that if you place a bunch of levers in the alert burrow, use the profile menu so that each lever only allows one dwarf from the fray to operate it, and then designate them all to be pulled, the dwarves will follow their burrow order. I faced the same bug before.
The dwarfs did follow their burrow order. They all left the fight successfully using the burrow (leaving my civ's liason in the fight), but in a short time I noticed about 8 thirsty dwarfs in the meeting hall, not seeking drink or working. After trying some things, I looked about and found the bug report, then rolled back to before that migration wave came through the tunnel, and all was good (I just walled that liason in and the migrants took another route).
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

bloop_bleep

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 02:13:09 am »

After trying some things, I looked about and found the bug report, then rolled back to before that migration wave came through the tunnel, and all was good (I just walled that liason in and the migrants took another route).

"Um, hey Urist?"
"Yes?"
"Uh -- I hear growling noises coming from that room."
"Oh, that's where we put that undead goat head. We can hear it chewing on the outpost liaison's bones sometimes. It'll probably be there for the rest of eternity."
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Quote from: KittyTac
The closest thing Bay12 has to a flamewar is an argument over philosophy that slowly transitioned to an argument about quantum mechanics.
Quote from: thefriendlyhacker
The trick is to only make predictions semi-seriously.  That way, I don't have a 98% failure rate. I have a 98% sarcasm rate.

PatrikLundell

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 04:36:29 am »

Arranging for a cave-in to smash the head (assuming it's stationary) is doable, but requires a lot of work, because a staircase that's higher than the sight range would have to be built in a location out of sight range, or the builders would be scared off. I've sort of done that to deal with a Titan that decided to camp in a murky pool (I dumped stones on it, as I didn't know enough about cave-ins at that time, but it eventually did the job, but a cave-in would have been better and would have required less work).

Edit: And the outpost liaison case is probably even more horrific, since the liaison doesn't have to eat or drink, so he'll eventually go insane, and then die of old age before the head can (attempt to) gnaw on his bones. I'd try to rescue him before going bonkers, though, by filling the corridor with cage traps and then removing the wall.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 04:39:58 am by PatrikLundell »
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Pseudo

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 09:38:26 am »

If that's a problem, block LOS with a bridge first.

But yes, this method can be annoying if it's in a large flat area.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: The Immortal Goats Head problem
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 06:30:23 pm »

It's a bit tricky to block LOS with a bridge, since the builders of the bridge will be in LOS of the head, and thus flee or join the fray at sight.
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