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[Chiefwaffles]

The range thing was actually equal priority with explosive, but Evicted misinterpreted it and I'm okay with that.

And also, at sea our HA1s are outranged by their airships. The range part was intended to fix that.

[helmacon]

We can not hit the air ships because of the angles involved. That's why we designed a gun specifically to shoot at more extreme angles.

[andrea]

No, that was when they were rushing at us.
Right now, they just stay out of range from our guns. And we couldn't hit them because our guns didn't have enough range to reach them.

[VoidSlayer]

We can not hit the air ships because of the angles involved. That's why we designed a gun specifically to shoot at more extreme angles.

Yes, and it could not hit them.  Remember that their ballistas and lighting both hit at extreme range with super precision.

Hell, just researching true shot would be worth it even if it took 3 designs, it is so powerful basically all our cannon work would be worth just having that spell.

[Chiefwaffles]

Have you seen the picture Evicted gave us? It's pretty clear.


Their airships can shoot at us from BLOS range. Or HA1s can shoot at HA1 range, but only if they hit the ground. The point of additional range was so HA1s can hit them in the air at BLOS range.

[andrea]

for reference, the post with the picture

[Chiefwaffles]

Revision: Better Magegems (Definitive Version)
Magegems are... "useful".
They were envisioned as a device to prevent our mages from being just batteries. Despite the apparent success of the project, they were in many ways a failure. Sure, we had created batteries for magical energy, but they were extraordinarily weak. Only by using extreme amounts of the large and bulky A-sized Magegems could we get anywhere close to the spells used by mages today.

It's believed that Magegems are more-or-less inefficient in their storage of energy. It's as if you filled a water tank with debris, limiting the maximum amount of water for no apparent benefit. By optimizing the structure using our extensive knowledge of these kinds of structures, we can allow each Magegem to more efficiently store power, getting the practical effect of each Magegem tier storing more power for the same size and cost.

Our realistic goal is for each Magegem to "jump up" a tier without going up in price or size, and we shall classify these improved Magegems by appending a "+" to the end of the classification.
The AAA+ Magegem should store as much power as the AA Magegem while still keeping the AAA's Cheap expense and tiny size.
The AA+ Magegem should store as much power as the A Magegem while still keeping the AA's Expensive nature and fairly small size.
The A+ Magegem should jump in power storage as much as the previous Magegems, although we do not have a bigger size to compare it to. It should of course still be Very Expensive and keep the size of the A Magegem.
Of course, this is just the realistic goal. If possible, we wish to improve our Magegems even further.
The improving of every Magegem is a simple task - each Magegem is really the same design, only in varying sizes. The benefits of this revision should of course not be exclusive to a single size of Magegem, and thus can be applied to any of the sizes. Though if for some strange reason a size had to be prioritized, the AA+ Magegem is the most important.

The immediate benefits are clear:
The AS-R1 Hybrid Rifle shall be able to use AA+ Magegems instead of A Magegems. It's easier to store AA+ Magegems on the person and to transport them in bulk, making ammunition storage less of a worry. It's slightly easier to reload with the smaller Magegems, slightly increasing rate of fire. But most importantly, AA+ Magegems should be cheaper than the A Magegems currently used, and the price of the AS-R1 should drop to merely Expensive for Mundane Users.

The Blastshell is the biggest beneficiary. We wish to create variants of the Blastshell using these improved Magegems:
The Blastshell-RE, "Rocket Explosive", does not decrease on the size, expense, or amount of Magegems, and will use A+ Magegems instead of A Magegems. This should allow for us to use our extensive experience to make the Blastshell-RE both Blastball-propelled and explosive. It can still only fit in the HA1 and should be Very Expensive.
The Blastshell-E, "Explosive", decreases the size and expense of the Blastshell by using AA+ Magegems instead of A Magegems. The shell is smaller due to the gains in space from using AA+ Magegems, and thus can fit into at least the HC1-E, and preferably the AS-HAC-1; there will of course be a variant for the HA1 as well so we can use our HA1s to lob explosive shells at BLOS range. The Blastshell-E foregoes the range bonus for an explosive effect. It should be Expensive. If, for whatever reason, we can only create one variant, this is the highest priority variant.
The Blastshell-R, "Rocket", decreases the size and expense via AA+ Magegems just like the Blastshell-E and fits in the same cannons, but unlike the Blastshell-E, the Blastshell-R keeps the Blastball range boost, allowing our HA1s, HC1-Es and AS-HAC-1s to get higher velocity shells for better armor piercing or increase their range by one "unit". Like the Blastshell-E, it should be just Expensive.

If by some RnG miracle amazing success from our Mathemagicians, we make even better Magegems than our realistic goal intends to, we could use even cheaper Magegems for these designs and take the expense of each variant down a notch to Expensive, Cheap, Cheap respectively. But of course, this is only if the actual revision is an amazing ((6)) success.

We've been using Magegems a lot recently, with the introduction of the AS-R1 Rifle two(?) years ago and just now the new Blastshell. We've had them for quite a while and have had plenty of opportunities to tinker and study with them. This revision should be easy.

As for the Blastshell variants, note this line from the Academy's Report's summary:

The most difficult part about blastshells, as it turns out, is the power density.  We HAVE the technology and know-how to build the shells, but our magi-tech isn't quite there to make them feasible.

With increased power density and our existing know-how on how to build the desired shells, it should be trivial to make the shells.


TL;DR: Shift the tier of each Magegem up by one unit without increasing expense or size. So new AA = old A and so on. With this revision, the Explosive and Ranged variants of the Blastshell will become just Expensive + hopefully fit into HC1-Es and maybe AS-HAC-1s because of the smaller Magegems, the Explosive+Ranged variant Blastshell should become Very Expensive (though definitely only fitting in the HA1), and the AS-R1 should become Expensive for Mundane users because of the cheaper Magegems it can use.
Difficulty - See the stuff I've said about this above. We've been using Magegems a lot recently and have had them for a while, now. Revising something like this should be pretty easy. Regarding the Blastshell variants, that's just a direct consequence of better Magegems. Evicted has said we know how to make all the stuff, in fact, we really have the three variants already; they're just really expensive. Getting better Magegems should allow us to decrease the Expense and Size of all three variants due to the bottleneck being improved. As for the AS-R1, that's straightforward. The A Magegems are adding an expense level to the mundane version, and using AA+ Magegems should fix that.
Effects - The stated Blastshell variants (-R, -E, -RE) should all go down an expense level, as should the mundane version of the AS-R1. And of course, Magegems will be better in general.

2)  Sure, you make a variant of the shell that explodes on impact.  Still Very Expensive, and still BLOS, but now you have explosive ammo.

Just posting here to reinforce my point: We already know how to make all this stuff and the only new thing in the revision is the better Magegems. The variants are all just cost reductions and direct consequences of better Magegems.

2 - Better Magegems: Chiefwaffles, Andrea

[helmacon]

2 - Better Magegems: Chiefwaffles, Andrea
Crystal Optics: helmacon

[/quote]

[Chiefwaffles]

What?

Better Magegems does the following:
1.) It helps us at land by actually introducing explosive ammunition at just Expensive. Nearly every single update for a while now we've been reminded that our lack of explosive ammunition is hurting us.
2.) It helps us fight their airships by making the stanadard Blastshell expensive and able to fit in smaller cannons.
3.) It helps us against their armor as rocket-boosted shells (the standard Blastshell) should be able to pierce armor more effectively.
4.) It makes our AS-R1 rifles drop in expense for mundane users, who should be able to actually use it effectively.
5.) It allows us to make a (VE) version of the Blastshell with both the boost and explosive, to help even further.

Crystal Optics just makes our HA1s a bit better. Their useful weapons are literally all line-of-sight based. Crystal optics won't help at all against them. It'll just make BLOS targeting more effective for the HA1 and the HA1 only.

[FallacyofUrist]

Revision:
3 - Better Magegems: Chiefwaffles, Andrea, FallacyofUrist
1 - Crystal Optics: helmacon

Myark:
1 - Send to Western Sea - FallacyofUrist

Better Magegems are important for all sorts of magical stuff. Like the Silencer we'll hopefully do for our next design. Or better shells. Or Silencer Shells.

[RAM]

Actually, "beyond line-of-sight" applies to surface-surface engagements. It seems reasonable that air targets at that range are actually visible...

Add to that the fact that carpets are shorter ranged threats. Not that the carpets are relevant in any way at all, but it was the whole reason that we built the infantry cannons so?

Also, the better magegems seems pretty ambitious. They all get a buff and maintain their cost? I would think that we could either get expensive B magems or make the existing magems cheaper. We realyl need to spend a design on recharging them if we want to free our wizards.

[helmacon]

We just spent an entire design trying to make a new shell type, rolled a 7, and it sucked. You want to make 3 new shell types and reduce the cost of mage gems all in a revision.
Also, I wrote a thing about where all our optics would help us (a lot of places) but I don't feel like digging it up right now.

[VoidSlayer]

Why are you including 3 other blastshell designs in the revision.

The basic mage gem revision will reduce the expense of our stuff, then we can use them to make or revise new things, but trying to make 3 new ammo types while also improving our mage gems seems like a stretch.

[Chiefwaffles]

@RAM: That's always been what revisions are about, RAM. Improve an aspect of a design. If you get a good roll, it happens. If you get a bad roll, it either doesn't happen, or happens with bugs. If the revision's techniques can easily apply to other designs or things, then it automatically does. Like fixed breech-loading + Blastballs being applied to all our cannons once revised. We're improving the power of the Magegems. This is a technique that isn't exclusive to one Magegem, since they're just separated by size (and thus Expense) and we can apply the technique from the revision to each Magegem.
The benefits for the Blastshell and AS-R1 are natural consequences of a successful Magegems revision. If that single attribute change can reasonably affect other things, then it does. Like nickel circuits being a simple change yet having a variety of benefits for many different things. Nickel circuits lowered the expense of every(?) cannon we had and the steam engine and made them less vulnerable to fire.

And yeah, Evicted said air targets at BLOS are visible. The problem is that (without the Blastshell) our HA1s can only hit BLOS targets at ground level, and the airships are above that. Extending the HA1's range to BLOS+1 means they won't have a problem hitting targets in the air at BLOS.
Carpets were not the whole reason we built the "infantry cannons", and I'm assuming you're referring to both the AS-HAC-1 and AS-R1. The AS-HAC-1 was envisioned primarily as a lighter cannon for point defense and use against closer targets versus the more long-ranged sieging nature of the HC1-E and HA1. The AS-R1 is more-so intended as a general-purpose infantry weapon, though it's not there quite yet.


@VoidSlayer + helmacon - From the discord:
---
evictedSaint: The vote prioritized the +range aspect.  Adding an explosive payload would have increased the cost and increased the difficulty.  After the anti-magic shell, I figured you guys would prefer a more available shell.
Andrea: does that mean that it is within the reach of a revision to get better magegems and have the explosive effect?
evictedSaint: Sure. I did say you had the tech and the limiting factor was the power available.
---
Also see what I said to RAM.

Note evicted's last statement. The limiting factor is the power available. With the Blastshell, it's entirely the Magegems stopping us. With more power, we can implement both explosives and ranged like Evicted said. And we can easily have a variant just using the cheaper version of the Magegems providing the same power, and evicted said in the design post for the Blastshell that the Magegems are the bottleneck in terms of price so using cheaper Magegems makes the price go down.

[RAM]

I really don't think that magical explosions are viable propulsion. ?A normal explosive is a heavy material that rapidly expands to fill a larger area. A magical explosion has no material, unless fireballs have been permanent matter-conjuration all along. If something expands and stays that way, then it can be used directly as propulsion, such as with rockets expelling rocket fuel. If something is artificially expanded away from a central point, then that central point will become an extremely low-pressure zone and its immediate surroundings will become a high-pressure zone. This is a good thing for localised destructive potential, as it means that immediately upon exploding, it implodes, resulting in an opposing pressure wave that will harden flexible surfaces and separate layered materials, causing buckling and such... (Request for damage upgrade from explosive magic against hardened structures.) The downside is that all the force that you apply is immediately countered by the force of the relative pressure regions restoring to their former state. Now, given the movement involve, momentum, the peculiarities of air-flow, there will still be some measure of propulsion, provided that the explosion is not contained. The hand-held rifles, for example, will work so long as the bullet exists the barrel before the implosion occurs, and the implosion will counteract recoil, but if the bullet did not escape the barrel, then it would be sucked back in, as all the force that pushed it out would be immediately reverse. Well, not completely, its momentum could still carry it out potentially, but it is a big problem with things like automatic firing as you can't block the chamber until the air has settled if you don't want a vacuum to form and undercut your power output...

Basically, if you want magical explosion to provide sustained thrust ith any sort of efficiency, then you gotta have something to stop the implosion from sucking you back. A pulse-jet would do it. Or a conjuration spell to fill the void, or displacement magic to shift the low-pressure somewhere else... But the pulse-jet is the easy choice.