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[Draignean]

I suspect a lower number of frames per round might make combat more tactical. I appreciate the granularity of five, but it makes it hard to predict when the action is going to happen even with pattern combos, which in turn shifts a lot of battle frames to muddy dead space.


The number of attack patterns may be part of this also, since the round becomes harder and harder to predict as the frames go on. Our mobility-happy daggerfriends probably exacerbated this, though, since I think I was entirely focused on attack spikes and openings on the axe bandits.

Right, the dagger guys were kind of the epitome of mobility happy enemies. With the possible exception of some kind of incredibly specialized creature, I don't think I will make a move set with a higher mobility than the dagger guys had. They, interestingly, self generated the video game trope of alternative movement- they could travel faster using attacks than they could using move actions.

I was actually thinking that 5 frames was a difficult, but workable balance. A lower number of frames mean you get to reposition more often- maneuver and recalculate more frequently. That doesn't really advantage you one way or the other, since it also lets enemies react more quickly. However, it does increase the rate that players need to post actions, which potentially slows down the combat. Of course, the logical counter-argument is that the smaller turn intervals would increase the hit-rate and thus compensate equivalently for the increased time to get actions in. However, if I decrease the frame count, this makes odd things happen to certain heavy attacks. Heavy weapons with good damage and good attack patterns (think Ultra greatsword or the like) I think fit a 5 frame heavy attack well. Essentially, the frame count for a round should, in my mind, be equal to the frame cost of the heaviest attack of the heaviest weapon the players are likely to use. (Granted, some even more ungodly heavy weapon might have additional effects to get around that)

I also like combos, which require at least one weapon ability take half-or-fewer of the available frames in a round.  Lengthening the number of frames would make that appreciably easier. In addition, I want players to have a slight advantage by giving them an extra frame every so often (currently players are essentially 25% faster than most enemies) and increasing the frame number increases my ability to tune this.

tl;dr: I've thought about it, I really have. For now, however, I don't want to move it off five. Four seems too low, six seems too high, and five is the unhappy compromise I've been working with. We'll see, but right now most of my concerns are based off an annoying enemy type that (I realized after finishing the move set) was designed to be an annoying enemy type.

I absolutely love the flavor of windup/cooldown attacking and combos; I was pretty routinely imagining the attack animations for telegraphing (windup) or making and then sluggishly resetting from (cooldown) attacks.

That said, I found myself checking the front page to remember what the consequences of getting hit during their W/C were a lot. I dunno if they're not intuitive enough or too complex or I'm just not used to it or what, but it was kind of a pain.

Thank god I'm not the only one doing this. Either one. The warm-up/cooldown is less of a problem for me since I don't have to build a sequence constantly, I just roll dice and select patterns, but I did have to look it up a disturbing number of times when running hits. Granted, this system is new and we're all adjusting, but I'm open to suggestions to improve it.

The idea behind the penalty construction went like this. Both light and heavy have one penalty that activates when taking damage, and one penalty that makes it easier to take damage. Heavy penalties are more severe than light penalties. Light penalties favor builds with high agility and accuracy, Heavy penalties favor high resistance and... well, resistance.

I too have a number of fun scenes happening in my head during the various attack patterns. It's very much like a much smaller me writing fantasy fight scenes. Except less frantic scribbling as I illustrated on the fly, and fewer sound effect mouth noises.

Slightly fewer.

[Draignean]

Double posting for great justice.

So, the following is a mock-up of something closer to an actual game map.


1. Is the style alright?
2. Is it readable?
3. It's late and I can't think of a 3. Are there any suggestions?

[OceanSoul]

I'm sorta surprised that we can see where the enemies are, considering that many of them are within/behind houses, etc.

[Tiruin]

I'm sorta surprised that we can see where the enemies are, considering that many of them are within/behind houses, etc.

Bird's Eye view advantage :3
One way I've seen in similar games is to either Fog-of-War, or just 'hide enemies until people move into their view range', which isn't possibly applicable here given the forum play-by-post method.

It's just like Fire Emblem (on Forums) but fancy 3D! You still get to plan your moves out!

...Holy fish. A random thought hit me!

Draignean: Isn't this hex-combat sorta like how you planned to do your Lighthouse game?!

[Draignean]

I'm sorta surprised that we can see where the enemies are, considering that many of them are within/behind houses, etc.

Bird's Eye view advantage :3
It's just like Fire Emblem (on Forums) but fancy 3D! You still get to plan your moves out!

Draignean: Isn't this hex-combat sorta like how you planned to do your Lighthouse game?!

The similarity begins, and ends, with the hexes.  Abilities are somewhat similar between the two games, but this is much more focused on speed and lethality than Lighthouse was.

Also, Tir, this isn't 3D.

I'm sorta surprised that we can see where the enemies are, considering that many of them are within/behind houses, etc.

I am considering doing area masks for the internals of structures, but there are a couple reasons against it.

1. The tool I'm currently using does not particularly like objects and sub-objects. In order to move an object within the church, I must first move the entire church. Using a layer mask would substantially compound the problem.
2. In the 5 frame system it makes perfect sense to make moving through unlocked doors a free part of a move action. However, if the doors potentially lead to threats, then the player is encouraged by the system to only use their last frame to open doors.
3. So much of this game is about planning. Withholding information has the potential to cripple that planning. I suppose it can also make things spicier, but I think it would degenerate into the players clearing an area and then popping doors one-by-one in incredibly tedious fashion rather than a series of tense encounters with unknown areas.

Not necessarily against it, but I don't see any compelling mechanical reason to change things.

[Criptfeind]

I think it looks fine, it seems clear and readable enough to me, with the exception of the water tiles, since they are taking up variable amounts of hex it's hard to tell what's considered water and what isn't, although maybe that doesn't matter if the water is flat ground that can be walked on anyway.

Anyway, my thoughts so far... Daggers are cancer. I need to get a dagger. Seriously though, although there's probably room for experimentation I agree with going too low or high with frames presents some issues, it's already really hard to predict 5 frames ahead, but if you go too low you run into granularity issues with weapons. I think that for the most part the movesets seem to work out, and are an appropriate balancing factor for ranged weapons. Movesets do make it harder to dodge attacks though and in general make the enemies movements harder to predict (especially dagger users, going from one option "hitting" to like a dozen between all the areas they can attack and move too) which in turn increases the randomness of the game a bit it feels? Which is most of the time going to be to the determent of the players, and with perma damage it might be a sorta big deal. You can see how we took a lot more damage in this battle then the last, and I think the movesets are, at least partially, responsible for that? I guess I have, some slight worry about game design goals, as is it looks like player death is probably going to be reasonably common, we'd probably be wiped out on the map you posted, which is fine if that's the goal, I just wanta make sure that's the goal first off.

On a more personal and less important to the game balance note, Early reaping is pretty bad, although to be fair we probably both knew it would be since instant death attacks are, by their nature most of the time, either op or not worth using. The cost of using a likely to miss attack that then damages it's user really isn't worth it, even if the upside is killing the enemy. I mean, if I can reap them with an acceptable percentage, I can probably just shoot them.

[Draignean]

I think it looks fine, it seems clear and readable enough to me, with the exception of the water tiles, since they are taking up variable amounts of hex it's hard to tell what's considered water and what isn't, although maybe that doesn't matter if the water is flat ground that can be walked on anyway.

Anyway, my thoughts so far... Daggers are cancer. I need to get a dagger. Seriously though, although there's probably room for experimentation I agree with going too low or high with frames presents some issues, it's already really hard to predict 5 frames ahead, but if you go too low you run into granularity issues with weapons. I think that for the most part the movesets seem to work out, and are an appropriate balancing factor for ranged weapons. Movesets do make it harder to dodge attacks though and in general make the enemies movements harder to predict (especially dagger users, going from one option "hitting" to like a dozen between all the areas they can attack and move too) which in turn increases the randomness of the game a bit it feels? Which is most of the time going to be to the determent of the players, and with perma damage it might be a sorta big deal. You can see how we took a lot more damage in this battle then the last, and I think the movesets are, at least partially, responsible for that? I guess I have, some slight worry about game design goals, as is it looks like player death is probably going to be reasonably common, we'd probably be wiped out on the map you posted, which is fine if that's the goal, I just wanta make sure that's the goal first off.

Carthus curved daggers are indeed cancer. Remember that losing all your HP isn't death, it just adds another agony to your sheet. Essentially, you have to lose your HP total 4x over before you actually die, unless you choose to go mad and cut out another character. Now, losing your HP 4x over has a bit of thermodynamic inevitability to it if there's absolutely no healing, which isn't quite true.  There is that one caveat in the OP that we never really got into and should probably talk about now: essence.

In the game, you get essence from killing things. Essence will be used both to increase your base abilities and to fix wounds, and probably buy things if I want to drink that deep from the DS cup. Essence can be spent between encounters, but not during.

Increasing an attribute with essence should cost something that scales with your total number of attribute points. Doesn't matter where you spend them, it just matters how many you have in total. So going from level 5, your starting point, to level 6, would cost 5 essence. 6->7 would cost 6 essence, and so on.

Restoring health via essence has a price dependent on your current health.
Current HP =< 25% : 1 Points per HP
25% < Current HP =< 50% : 3 points per 2 HP
50% < Current HP =< 75% : 2 Points per HP
75% < Current HP =< 100% : 5 points per 2 HP

So, let's say you all earned, each, 16 essence from the last five you killed.
Nhin could heal up to 9 (just past 50%) for 3 essence, then up to 12 (75%) or 6, then to 14 for another 5. She's almost back to perfect, but only has 2 essence left over.
Shorn could heal up to 15 (75%) for 4, then up to 19 for 10 more. Again, one off from perfect but only two essence left over.
Miles could heal back up to 15 for 2 essence, and then up to 19 for 10 more. He's left with twice as much essence as everyone else, but still not much.

Removing an agony... I don't really have numbers worked out for that yet. It needs to expensive enough to lend some danger to keeping a character at low HP, but not so much that it's simply not worth it, even to get rid of a crippling agony. My initial and untested thought is that it requires you to be at full health, and costs as much as a 25% heal + (20-3*#CurAgonies). It then removes the agony and sets you back at 25% health.


The idea is to make you guys balance leveling, healing, and potentially having enough 'money' to maybe upgrade your gear. Why? Because I'm evil.

[heydude6]

My main worry about the map right now is that some of the enemies look very similar to the players. I see 4 knight characters that remind me of Irony's sprite. Maybe you can try colour coding the hexes (at least the player's)?

[Draignean]

My mian worry about the map right now is that some of the enemies look very similar to the players. I see 4 knight characters that remind me of Irony's sprite. Maybe you can try colour coding the hexes (at least the player's)?

That's pretty easily addressed. I can add in a hex marker without difficulty to the bases of friendly figures.

So, what sim would people like to run through next?

1. A boss
2. An encounter with heavier/more enemies and more space
3. A small mission series, say 3, with essence between and a nice end cap.

[Criptfeind]

Oh, right, I can't believe I forgot to bring this up, but also marking numbers for enemies would be nice so you can tell at a glance who's knife asshole 1 and who's knife asshole 2.

Anyway, a boss sounds interesting to see, what the take on it would be.

[OceanSoul]

I'd like to see a boss, too. That's where my character would shine.

[heydude6]

My vote goes for boss. Many systems break during boss fights since the optimal strategy is usually just unload all of our most powerful abilities on it at once.

[Draignean]

So, I've officially done a mad science hybridization of map making- inkarnate for the backgrounds, and then roll20 to lay in tokens and static structures. People in structures is a nightmare on inkarnate, which makes sense since it's really not meant to do battlemaps.

Modified Early Reaping.

PPE: Goddamnit I forgot to add an axis. Bah... If you need it before next round just yell at me.

The harvest idol sways in the center of the untended field, its movements curiously opposite to those of the tall grass surrounding it. It is a pagan thing, made of woven deadwood, cracked with age, weathered by the elements, and bound together with straps of leather into the effigy of a man some nine feet tall. A reminder from more primitive times, when Gods weren't begged for redemption or the cleansing of the soul, but were paid to heal cattle and protect crops. Paid with offerings of flesh and of bone.

Spikes of iron protrude from its body here and there, implements for worshipers to impale and hang sacrifices for times of need. Skeletons, animal and human both, still hang from those spikes, and the wood around them is stained black with the blood of the victims that had come before. The idol's arms are crossed over its chest, and each wooden hand is wrapped around what is left of a scythe- the wood of each implement is whole, but the blades of both seemed to have rusted off long ago. 

The skull of a bull sits atop its wooden shoulders, and there's something... unsettling about the darkness within its sockets. There are no eyes, but it looks at you.

It knows you.

Spoiler: Units (click to show/hide)

Enemy
Corrupted Harvest Idol: 30/30

Friendly
Miles: 20/20
Shorn: 20/20
Nhin: 15/15

Spoiler: Idol Stats (click to show/hide)

Corrupted Harvest Idol
HP: 30

Modifiers:
+2 Damage
+2 To hit
2 Evasion
5 Resistance

Weapons
Broken Twin Scythes [L:2 H:4 D:3 Dam: 7-12]

Known Abilities
Adaptive: Attacks that inflict status debuffs are less likely to succeed, and yield diminishing returns, the more they are used against this target. (Contractual Boss Immunity Type I)
Inhuman Force: Some or all of this units attack's cannot by actively blocked. Such attacks will be designated as UL or UH during patterns. A successful active block during these attacks will be reduced to a timed block.  (Contractual Boss Immunity Type II)

Known Patterns:

Spoiler: Boss Moveset (click to show/hide)

Light

Heavy

Spoiler: Miles (click to show/hide)

Name: Miles Twice Dead
HP:  20/20
Archetype: Pistol Wraith
Assets:
Dead Again: If you take more than 25% of your remaining life in a single blow, re-roll the damage and take the lower value.
Agonies:
Death Echo: If you take more than 25% of your remaining life in a single blow, you become staggered.
Inventory:
St. Elmo's Pistols  [L:2 Ra:4 Dam: 6-8]
Hangmans Noose [EVA +4 -Pot: 2]
Charons bribe [Grants Ability: Early Reaping]
Train robbers dynamite [P:5 H:1 Ra:3 U:3/- Dam:15-30]

Potency: 0 (-2)
Precision: 2
Vigor: 0
Will: 0
Agility: 3

Soul:
Hexagram 63: Aftermath
Upper Trigram: Water
Lower Trigram: Fire

Modifiers:
-2 to Dealt Damage
+7 Evasion
+2 to hit

Abilities:
Dead Shot:  Cooldown 10, Frame cost 4. If the attacker is at least 2, and at most 6 tiles away, make single light attack. Attack gains +1 bonus damage per point the attack roll exceeds the defense roll. This can double the dealt damage, but no more. If this ability doubles the damage of the light attack, it is counted as a heavy attack for the purposes of inflicting stagger.
Blazing Doubleshot: Cooldown -, Framecost 5. Aligns weapon with fire and and makes two heavy attacks, burst pattern. This attack staggers you.
Early Reaping: Cooldown 15, Framecost 2. Select a single target. Your attacks against the target have a 10% chance to deal double damage for this round and the next. Allies gain a 5% chance to do the same.

Spoiler: Shorn (click to show/hide)

Name: Shorn
HP: 20/20
Archetype: Writhing Wall
Assets:
Union of the Old Flesh: Every 3 points of damage taken or dealt gains a charge that can be applied to increase a stat by 1 for a round.
Agonies:
Unstable Form: Abilities have a 25% chance to fizzle and go on cooldown when used.

Inventory:
Writhing Gothic Plate [R:5 -Acc:2 -E:2]
Tower Shield of Eyes [D:4 H:1 Dam: 0-2]
Starmetal Sword [L:2 H:4 Dam: 5-12]
Amulet of Unspeakable Whispers [Grants ability: Insidious Doubt]

Statistics
Potency: 0
Precision: 0
Vigor: 0
Will: 5
Agility: 0

Soul:
Hexagram 8: Bonding
Upper Trigram: Water
Lower Trigram: Earth

Modifiers
Resistance: 10
1d2 Evasion
-2 to Hit

Abilities
Unspeakable Revelation: Cooldown 10, Frames 5. Swap resistance and Potency and make a single heavy attack.
Death Stare: Cooldown 3, Frames 1. Block action. Throw an attack roll on a successful block with the shield of eyes, if the target is struck their Will is reduced by the damage dealt. Reducing a target below 0 Will with this ability deals 1 point of damage.
Insidious Doubt Once per Encounter, Frames -. Curse a single target. That target gains a cumulative 5% chance to be staggered whenever they fail to hit you. Staggering an opponent in this manner resets the counter, as does a successful strike on their part. After three staggers, or if you stagger, the effect breaks.

Spoiler: Nhin (click to show/hide)

Name: Nhin Thalles
HP: 15/15
Archetype: Vulpine Arcanist
Assets: 
Calculating: If Nhin attacks on the fourth or fifth frame, the accuracy and damage are increased by 1.
Agonies:
Hesitant: If Nhin attacks on the first or second frame, the accuracy and damage are decreased by 1.

Statistics:
Potency: 2 (1)
Precision: 1 (2)
Vigor: 0 (-1)
Will: 0
Agility: 2 (3)

Inventory:
Red Sakura Staff  [L:2 H:3, dam 5-8]
Phantasmal Silk Robes [E:4 -Pot: 1]
Mystic Fox's Mask [Adds Ability: Foxform]
Foxtail Charm [+1 Agility, +1 Precision, -1 Vigor]


Soul:
Hexagram 5: Calculated Waiting
Upper Trigram: Water
Lower Trigram: Heaven (Metal)

Modifiers 
+1 Damage
+2 To hit 
+7 EVA


Abilities
Dancing Blossoms: Cooldown 5, Frames 2. Gain +2 Evasion, +2 Resistance, -3 Potency until discharged or dispelled. Use again while active to use one of two abilities-
-Coming of Winter: Discharge and attempt to freeze a target within three spaces. Increases Resistance by 8 but removes all evasion. Lasts for 1d4-1 rounds. Water type attack.
-Heaven's Garden: Requires 3 frames. Discharge and select any tile within four spaces as the center of a pillar of metal flowers. Central point is a heavy attack dealing 5-15 damage, all adjacent are affected by a light attack dealing 3-7 damage. Metal Type.
-Inevitable End: Discharge and select any adjacent tile. Any unit that occupies that tile is hit with a heavy attack that deals 7-13 damage and cannot be evaded or resisted.

Power Within: Cooldown -, Frames X. Sacrifice any number of frames on the current round to charge this ability by X*2, this ability can hold up to 20 charges. You lose 1 charge per turn when not charging. Abilities can be used without paying a frame cost.
-Inner Light:  Sacrifice 2 charge to gain a +1 bonus to resistance and potency for one round. At 5 charges, this ability can be applied as a debuff to an enemy within 3 tiles instead.
-Nine Souls:  Sacrifice 5 charge and take one ability, either yours or your ally's, and remove up to 5 frames of cooldown. At 10 charges, this grants a 25% chance for your own abilities to not go on cooldown when used.
-Beacon of Glory: Sacrifice 5 charge to add a +1 bonus to resistance and potency to all allies for one round. At 15 charges, all allies within 3 tiles gain +1 potency and resistance passively.

Foxform: Cooldown Once per Encounter, Frames -. Meld equipment, lose given bonuses. Gain +5 Evasion, -3 Potency. Gain Quick asset (1 move action moves you two spaces). Can still cast abilities that don't depend on weapon. Can be negated at any time.

[OceanSoul]

Nice work on the boss! Did you make the image yourself, or did you find it somewhere?
1-2. Dancing Blossoms
3-5. Charge Power Within.

[Draignean]

Nice work on the boss! Did you make the image yourself, or did you find it somewhere?
1-2. Dancing Blossoms
3-5. Charge Power Within.

Bit of both. It's mashed together out of a spoopy scarecrow token that I edited heavy, a bull skull tattoo, and a scythe image that I mucked about with. Basically just me writing a description and then putting images into a GIMP blender until something quasi similar popped out.