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[Folly]

His logic is that fighters only ask for a rematch after they lose; the winners don't need a rematch because they have already proven they are better.
Major flaw with this logic, this debate was only a preliminary to the election. If he won the debate(all credible sources say he lost badly) then he would benefit from winning further debates, increasing his favor leading up to the election, which is the only part of this competition which ultimately counts.

[hector13]

Well his logic is that he got brutalized by Harris and thus doesn’t want to give her more momentum, he just can’t say that, even if it’s obvious to anyone who heard him say “THEY’RE EATING DOGS”, which seems to be getting repeated on every late night comedy show.

Though my favourite outcome is - after Taylor Swift endorsed Harris - JD Vance saying this:

I don’t think Most Americans…are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans

and utterly failing to note the incredible irony.

[femmelf]

I'm stupid and stressed and said Im sorry for how I said this and did not want anyone punished for anything.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/09/14/harris-college-requirement-jobs/75226318007/

And you just lost my vote. This and the student loan debacle.... Degree becomes more and more worthless.... I will vote for Trump out of pure unadulterated spite knowing he's pure unadulterated evil to get some solution to this or have them come up with one under the legit threat of him coming back in power. At this point, the legit threat of him burning everything down should be motivation for them to fix it so millions of people who were tricked into going to college don't suffer as though we don't matter. Or, he actually does burn it down and ... O well, we're screwed anyhow.

I'm disabled, and get no benefits from the government at all. I am still paying for a college degree I use every day and every effort is being put forth.
I also get told I'm worthless, get crap pay, and told what I do is worthless but I better do it or god help me I'll be punished at work. People will complain like hell if I don't. It will also screw a bunch of people over if I don't do my job and this is just like teachers/nurses/healthcare/just tons of professionals that make society work, but are told we don't matter. Now any moron can do the job without the hard work..... Then why did I have to do/pay for it?
If I now have that degree become truly worthless but I have to pay for it my whole life, then I don't care and will seriously look to anything I can.

Either this thing has some value recognized or the debt goes down/away or something. Otherwise, it's just a lifelong punishment for doing what I was told.
All I EVER heard as a kid was "You have to go to college." There was never any other option and the thought that there was is laughable. We were told to do something and we did it. We followed directions and are now being punished for it.

We have enough morons running around without encouraging them. Idiocracy can't become real. If it does, other countries will eat us alive. The rest of the world doesn't pander to the stupid. No, it isn't "elitist." https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ Wanting to help people get education to qualify for jobs is not a bad thing. Just throwing up your hands in the air and saying "being uneducated is good enough," is horrid.

We need to find ways to educate people rather than give up and say the hell with it. We need to find ways to help people better themselves instead of throwing in the towel because effort is hard and maintaining a system of education matters.

If wanting to give everyone a way to better themself is "elitist" but letting them not care/not better themselves is "good." Then we are screwed.

Edit:Before I say anything thank you to T for helping me. I stupidly and stressfully thought I was being way more clear than I was. I'm embarrassed and I'm sorry. I should've said that much better and I actually don't want Trump in office. I want someone to come up with some kind of decent solution that isn't millions of people stuck in debt for their whole lives because they tried to learn something and do what they were told would make a better life for everyone. I did not do a good job saying we need to make education affordable and meaningful for everyone. I can see how what I said was stupidly a response to stress. I did not mean to imply or even think I was somehow implying that others should be punished because I had it way harder than it should have been. That was not in my head. I stupidly thought it would come across as obvious that they shouldn't be punished and neither should I or anybody else for doing what they were told.  You get told going to college will give  you a better life and for disabled people that's all there is, but then you get screwed instead. That's not right. I thought referencing idiocracy would show it was kind of a joke/satire, because we don't want a society where people can't get education. Trump has said some completely horrible things and Harris is the alternative who is supposed to be reasonable. If that's true then someone come up with something better than this that doesn't screw over people who did what they were supposed to do and that people get taught things that actually matter or are wanted by employers. Part of it is probably the employer's fault for trying to downsize whenever possible no matter what. I think those jobs probably need degrees and those degrees need to teach things those jobs need (or else what was the point). I meant it when I said, "We need to find ways to educate people rather than give up and say the hell with it. We need to find ways to help people better themselves instead of throwing in the towel because effort is hard and maintaining a system of education matters." I was coming from a place of pain and I thought I was being much more clear than I was.

[Starver]

Out of interest, I'm wondering how voting Trump in would leads to a solution to this issue for you (within the next four years)... I'm betting it wouldn't.

[Maximum Spin]

Either this thing has some value recognized or the debt goes down/away or something. Otherwise, it's just a lifelong punishment for doing what I was told.

How would that be fair? You paid for something willingly, and you got what you paid for - there's no question about that. Harris is right, after all, that in a lot of cases the degrees being demanded for jobs are nothing more than credentialism and don't actually matter to doing the job, so why should somebody who's perfectly capable of doing a job not be allowed to do it because you have buyer's remorse? 

[Truean]

[Please do note quote]
Not legal advice. Not representing anyone. Anyone who takes legal advice off the internet is stupid. Don't do it.

It doesn't, and I think she is aware of that. If I had to guess, she, like many, want a real solution to the crap they've been unjustly thrown into. She's understandably frustrated and feeling forgotten. This is honestly how Trump got a good chunk of undecided voters the first time around. He makes promises that he cares about the forgotten/screwed over. "I am your champion," or "I am your retribution," etc. In her case, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think she's falling for that. I think she feels abandoned and probably knows it won't solve anything but it's a protest of sorts.

For what it's worth, I gather this person is overwhelmed and justifiably so. She may not have any answers to a problem they didn't cause and are suffering from, unfairly as a rule. The way we let veterans, the disabled, and many others suffer in America is a crying shame and it shouldn't be that way.

First off, I understand your pain on this one, because I've been in a similar boat. I suffered an accident that required tons of surgery, and all that. Also, nobody gives a damn how much law school or medical school costs, but they need/want doctors and lawyers to fix crap for them. Or they lie to themselves and say they just need to know the magic trick to do it themselves. I can't condense 8 years of school after high school and 20 years of work experience into a neat little "hack" to magically work in all circumstances. Frankly, being asked to do so is insulting at times. I'm sure you and others would feel the same if your boss came up to you and demanded to know your "magic trick" to getting your job done so they could avoid paying you.

Those student loan bills are insane and a god awful trap. It is soul crushing those with student debt get somehow looked at like worthless bums despite paying for everything with God awful interest on top of it. We get nothing, even in "forgiveness," programs, which are rigged against us. But, tell that to a good chunk of the country that just does not care and you'll be labeled everything bad they can think of and be called a deadbeat who "doesn't pay their loan back." Then, someone will want a pro bono case.... All the while they wonder why the money you weren't paid isn't "paid back." Worst part, you already paid it back.It's all rigged. Your doctor's student loan bills are an average of $5,000/month. I've seen several student loan companies screw over military veterans without blinking, including during active duty deployments, which they are not allowed to do....

So there's tons of news stories about why people are stuck in student debt and how the system is rigged against them.
Even Fox news has had to admit it, though their solution is ... less than real:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness-applicants-rejected-college-debt
98% of applicants. Educated, smart people who did everything right just get screwed. As you stated, teachers, nurses, you name it.

So, if anyone would listen (but they won't), I could convince or soften opposition to PLSF/ "forgiveness" in a few points:
1.) George W Bush. A republican president really implemented PSLF (public service loan forgiveness)  into real implementation in 2007, partly because
A.) civil servant jobs are necessary but pay crap (e.g. teachers), and B.) The GI bill does not pay for college and veterans have tons of student loans.
2.) The GI Bill has not covered college costs in forever. It just hasn't. See point B above.
3.) Spreading out debt forgiveness across several years makes the government's cost negligible and those skills are being used to help the government/people. Your kid's teacher is up to their eyeballs in debt between a teaching degree and a master's, which is required....
A.) 10,000 over 10 years is $1000 a year. That's nothing for a wage and gov is not paying for training upfront (yes this includes military officer degrees)
4.) This is still a cheaper way for the government to retain talent than actually paying higher wages/salaries on important staff/military officers. Spreading it out over 25 years makes the numbers even smaller for non PSLF forgiveness.
5.) All the while the monthly payments are being made. So really, it's all being paid back anyhow over time.
6.) Tax: Guess what, the government considers this income and a benefit under IRS code 64(a)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2023/05/15/irs-taxes-apply-if-your-debt-is-cancelled-here-are-exceptions/#:~:text=Bankruptcy%20discharges%20aren%27t%20taxable.%20If%20your%20debt%20is,net%20operating%20losses%20or%20the%20basis%20of%20property.

The idea that the government is somehow "generously" giving money away to those with student loans is just ridiculous. Come on now, do the people opposing it really think the government is going to do nice things for people with no strings attached? That crap takes forever to pay off with forgiveness, and it is often taxed (one way or the other). Plus they find ways to make years of your work history not count, meaning 10 years becomes 12 years or 15. yes some progress has been made on making it slightly less rigged against the borrower, but .... It's still a crapshot. Trust me, anyone with student loans pays them back one way or another, and yes that includes "forgiveness," which is not really forgiveness. It is way cheaper for the government to do it that way through said programs. Or, they could just pay market wages, because civil servants make crap wages, unless the phrase "teacher's salary," has somehow stopped meaning poverty wages where you have to buy the school supplies while being paid crap too.

Ultimately it's a crapshoot. If you like we can talk in PM and I might be able to point you towards some groups that try to help. Voting for Trump out of spite isn't really an answer here at least in the sense that it won't help you. Also, I don't think the tactic of doing it to force a solution will work either. I get the anger though. I get the pain. I cannot legally represent you. I can perhaps point you toward some groups that might be able to assist.

All I'm gonna say is that this is a vast oversimplification and incorrect. There's every question about that. The idea of forcing (yes telling them from birth to do it and providing no alternatives counts) people to get degrees and then arbitrarily devaluing them but demanding they pay full price (and above full price) for a devalued thing is wrong. Same thing happened in the foreclosure crisis with homes and that was wrong too. That other person is not capable of doing that job or if they are then why did the one with the degree have to pay to get the degree? One person is being forced to bear a cost the other isn't. Someone charges you full price for something, but it isn't worth what they ripped you off for. That's being cheated. Years of your life, tons of your money, meaning nothing when you were lied to is fraud.

Fair? Imagine being told you had to give up years of your life and tons of money to do something. You did as told. Then they let someone else do it without having to do crap. What's something you worked your butt off for and sacrificed to get? Imagine someone else gets it for nothing. This is actually the argument they used against forgiving student loans (others paid it back or others didn't get to go to college). It can't be both ways. The unfair part is being made to pay in years of your life and currency while someone else gets it for nothing.

Right now you appear to be dealing with a person in a lot of pain and showing we're just going to say little empathy. You really need to stop, please.
Your are dealing with what she said is a disabled person being taken advantage of with few options. Oversimplifying a complex situation won't help.
Also, Max, this person appears to have blocked you based on a quick review of her posts from past interactions.

I'm going to ask you to do something. Step outside yourself for a second and see someone else's pain and just not respond. Please.

_______________________________________

Ordinarily I avoid this thread, because it has a tendency towards ... we're just gonna say not nice things. I see someone in pain and try to help now and then. Just trying not to regret it.

[Please do note quote]

[Maximum Spin]

EDIT: Okay, fine, lesson learned. From now on I'll follow the letter of the law and just report passive-aggressive swipes instead of trying to talk them out. Readers may as well disregard this and subsequent posts.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Right now you appear to be dealing with a person in a lot of pain and showing we're just going to say little empathy. You really need to stop, please.
Your are dealing with what she said is a disabled person being taken advantage of with few options. Oversimplifying a complex situation won't help.
Also, Max, this person appears to have blocked you based on a quick review of her posts from past interactions.

I'm going to ask you to do something. Step outside yourself for a second and see someone else's pain and just not respond. Please.

You could be less patronizing. I don't want to fight over this - I've sworn off fighting - but for my own sake, when addressed directly in a rather impolite way, I have to quote what I'm responding to. The idea that someone might retroactively try to change the record to look better puts too much of a bad taste in my mouth. In the unlikely event that you ever absolutely need to remove this, it can be discussed.

I'm not going to treat someone differently for being disabled - that would be against my principles. Of course a disability makes any situation worse, but it doesn't change the facts on the ground. I'm not being harsh here, even if you think so. As for being blocked, that's an individual poster's choice, and I certainly have made use of it myself, but I don't see why it matters.

I completely understand the difficulty femmelf describes, but, to me, it shows a lack of empathy to think that the answer is to make life worse for other people in order to make a statement about preserving jobs for people with college degrees. I'm completely willing to consider that people in such a situation were defrauded - and the solution to fraud is to sue the fraudsters, the colleges and the loan providers, not to demand that jobs that were, yes, illegitimately made dependent on spending money on a degree which isn't directly relevant to doing the work should have to stay that way for future generations to keep going through the mill. Much less to vote for Trump over it.

(And for the record, I don't think Harris intends to lower any job qualifications beneath what the job actually requires to perform in practice, do you?)

Even from the perspective of fraud, not once was anyone promised that he was paying to get a government job when going through college. The offer was education, which was received. I also don't think it's reasonable to say that anyone was "forced" to get a degree, except maybe by parents, given how many people were perfectly able to go through life without getting one. Certainly, I'll agree that many people were lied to about the value of what they were receiving, and the college system needs to be held to account for that.

But it's not healthy for the response to "I was unfairly convinced to waste time and money on something that ultimately didn't hold the value I was promised" to be "therefore everyone else should have to keep doing so forever so that I feel better about my own loss, even after cooler heads have prevailed and recognized that it isn't needed". That shows a frankly shameful lack of empathy toward the generations that will come after and have to participate in the same system. If that system can be made better now, it should be.

And yes, of course I understand femmelf's feelings about it - that's why I want to offer another perspective to try to convince that there could be a better way.

[Frumple]

It's, just... the change being mentioned should bring some value back to college degrees? At least from my understanding of it? The jobs being aimed at probably going to be lowest level federal jobs that never should have had the requirement to begin with, stuff you could train someone out of high school to do in a few weeks -- a degree requirement on them existing was saying degrees are barely worth a dishwashing job. There's a lot of degree requirements out there nowadays that do that, devalue the worth of a degree just by the asking, that are there more to filter social class or some shite than anything to do with the actual value of the education involved.

Taking some of that away, necessarily shifting the degree requirement upwards to work that actually needs a solid background to do, that's, just... it's the exact opposite of saying degree holders are worthless.

My personal background is someone with a BA and AS that's currently netting like a third the goddamn poverty line off of it, that's planning on starting a federal job hunt if Harris wins (there's no point if trump does, he's explicit in intending to gut the absolute hell out of federal jobs), that'd probably be on disability if florida wasn't a fucking shithole. No personal school debt 'cause my schools were cheap and family helped, but parent's been struggling with it my whole damn life. I get how shitty it all is on a pretty damn personal level, ha.

The implication my degree actually might be able to get something other than friggin' gs-1 or something sounds like a blessing, not an insult, y'know?

...

respect or empathy or much of anything like that from MS isn't something likely to happen, though, for what it's worth. That's not what they do, blech.

[Truean]

Please do not quote

What are you doing... What are you doing?

Wow. Missing the point. It is not about you or me. Please quit trying to make it about you. I was politely asking you to let something go so I could deal with someone's situation. In no way shape or form was that "patronizing." Nor was repeatedly requesting you please let something go "impolite," in any way.

This person is in distress about their student loans. That's the main issue. This isn't about us. This isn't about anything else. Why do you think she posted? Why do you think she cared enough to do that? She's freaking out because she's in acute distress and doesn't know how to handle it. Situational awareness.

This is making me regret helping.... in order to help someone, I have to deal with this?

Right now you appear to be dealing with a person in a lot of pain and showing we're just going to say little empathy. You really need to stop, please.
Your are dealing with what she said is a disabled person being taken advantage of with few options. Oversimplifying a complex situation won't help.
Also, Max, this person appears to have blocked you based on a quick review of her posts from past interactions.

I'm going to ask you to do something. Step outside yourself for a second and see someone else's pain and just not respond. Please.

You could be less patronizing. I don't want to fight over this - I've sworn off fighting - but for my own sake, when addressed directly in a rather impolite way, I have to quote what I'm responding to. The idea that someone might retroactively try to change the record to look better puts too much of a bad taste in my mouth. In the unlikely event that you ever absolutely need to remove this, it can be discussed.

I'm not going to treat someone differently for being disabled - that would be against my principles. Of course a disability makes any situation worse, but it doesn't change the facts on the ground. I'm not being harsh here, even if you think so. As for being blocked, that's an individual poster's choice, and I certainly have made use of it myself, but I don't see why it matters.

I completely understand the difficulty femmelf describes, but, to me, it shows a lack of empathy to think that the answer is to make life worse for other people in order to make a statement about preserving jobs for people with college degrees. I'm completely willing to consider that people in such a situation were defrauded - and the solution to fraud is to sue the fraudsters, the colleges and the loan providers, not to demand that jobs that were, yes, illegitimately made dependent on spending money on a degree which isn't directly relevant to doing the work should have to stay that way for future generations to keep going through the mill. Much less to vote for Trump over it.

(And for the record, I don't think Harris intends to lower any job qualifications beneath what the job actually requires to perform in practice, do you?)

Even from the perspective of fraud, not once was anyone promised that he was paying to get a government job when going through college. The offer was education, which was received. I also don't think it's reasonable to say that anyone was "forced" to get a degree, except maybe by parents, given how many people were perfectly able to go through life without getting one. Certainly, I'll agree that many people were lied to about the value of what they were receiving, and the college system needs to be held to account for that.

But it's not healthy for the response to "I was unfairly convinced to waste time and money on something that ultimately didn't hold the value I was promised" to be "therefore everyone else should have to keep doing so forever so that I feel better about my own loss, even after cooler heads have prevailed and recognized that it isn't needed". That shows a frankly shameful lack of empathy toward the generations that will come after and have to participate in the same system. If that system can be made better now, it should be.

And yes, of course I understand femmelf's feelings about it - that's why I want to offer another perspective to try to convince that there could be a better way.

I'm not interested in dealing with this again. You chased me away from these forms for being transgendered (Yes there's proof, no I don't wanna report anyone and haven't and have gone out of my way not to). Please stop it. The idea that I would "change things" to make you look bad is inapplicable and you know it. I left rather than deal with you. I didn't report you. I convinced others not to report you and there are literally well over a dozen instances of me asking others not to report you:.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68850.msg7889579#msg7889579

If only for the fact that I have stood up for you and successfully gotten others not to report you repeatedly would you please do the bare minimum everyone else does here and not quote me when I try to help someone?

I avoid you. What on earth would make you conclude that I wanted anything to do with you or that I would try to get you in trouble when I have, for several years, done everything including leaving the forum to avoid that? What on earth makes you think I'm out to get you when I have done everything to avoid doing that just .... Years upon years of evidence points to exactly the opposite of me being out to get you. Just for the love of god, please let it drop? 

I hide the fact that I am transgender, and have to be very careful because I received death threats (yes traced back to 12 bay going back almost 10 years ago) way back years ago. It is not safe and recently it is well known that there has been a massive backlash against transgender people..... Again, we've had this discussion. You know this.

"In the unlikely event that you ever absolutely need to remove this, it can be discussed."

My safety and risks should not be up for discussion and the same is true for everyone else here. You following around a disabled lady that blocked you is not ok and this? Dude. Please just delete it like everyone else. It costs you absolutely nothing. It is incredibly simple.

We've had this before. It didn't end well. The only reason I am dealing with any of it is to help another person. I am focusing on connecting this person to resources, which I have done with several other people here. This is a person you have had a pattern of behavior with that has lead her to block you in threads and with postings I have had nothing to do with. Seriously, why are you going near her or having this thought at all, "And yes, of course I understand femmelf's feelings about it - that's why I want to offer another perspective to try to convince that there could be a better way."
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=162538.msg8545769#msg8545769
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=162538.msg8545775#msg8545775 You know she blocked you.
What? She clearly doesn't want this and I don't know why that isn't registering. When someone blocks a person, what on earth would make someone think that person wants that person following them around. You've made a bunch of inapplicable assumptions.   

Wow this isn't about inflated or deflated job requirements. Look at her post, actually read it, "I'm disabled, and get no benefits from the government at all.
I am still paying for a college degree I use every day and every effort is being put forth.I also get told I'm worthless, get crap pay, and told what I do is worthless but I better do it or god help me I'll be punished at work. People will complain like hell if I don't. It will also screw a bunch of people over if I don't do my job and this is just like teachers/nurses/healthcare/just tons of professionals that make society work, but are told we don't matter. <---- This right here. This is pain. Solve the pain, solve the other stuff. Please let me help her....

"I'm not going to treat someone differently for being disabled - that would be against my principles." ` Max .... Dude.... can you be nice to the disabled lady who is having a hard time? Can you do that please? If this isn't polite I don't know what is.

You're saying she shows a "shameful lack of empathy." Dude. This is about how she is in a tough situation with her student loans. She clearly feels betrayed and hurt and the answer to that is not to say she has a shameful lack of empathy. Really? She doesn't care about other people? . Then what's this:
"We need to find ways to help people better themselves instead of throwing in the towel because effort is hard and maintaining a system of education matters." <---- That's not shameful lack of empathy that's pain from feeling screwed and not wanting others screwd.

This person is in pain and what you are doing is not helping. <---- That's the point.

That's it. Please. Just stop it.  I don't know what magic words you want me to say. If I haven't shown I'm not out to get you across how many years of having the opportunity to do that but not doing it and convincing several other people not to report you, then I I have no idea. How about you please delete that and I'll delete this part quoting you. Can we do that? Can we please do that?

You can stop this at any time.

[McTraveller]

I think the better approach is to help by examining why in this particular situation government assistance is not available - when it very likely may be there. Maybe that was what the offer for PM was?

Ultimately though it's true: "the system" (including the government) doesn't value specific individuals at all. The best we can do is support people with whom we have relationships. Often that starts with commiseration; problem-solving comes later.

[Truean]

[Please do not quote]

Yes, primarily benefits (including redistributing resource/cost, utility subsides for electric and gas and internet and referral to social security disability resources), referral to counseling with a professional who deals with student loans. That sort of thing and if appropriate others. Connection with resources.

It's a messy puzzle where things have gone wrong for years. I don't have magic answers to the larger issue but if I did I would make stuff work. We discard human beings far too easily. There needs to be some role for people and ....  It's a terrifying thought. We shouldn't have to burden anyone with this kind of crap and there's no reason education shouldn't be considered a public good again. My god, give people the tools they need to suceed as opposed to saddling them for the rest of their life either with debt in currency or dearth of skills. The way we do things is insane, but then again, what do I know.

"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." Hemmingway (I think but I could be wrong).

[Please do not quote]

[Folly]

And you just lost my vote. This and the student loan debacle.... Degree becomes more and more worthless.... I will vote for Trump out of pure unadulterated spite
...
We need to find ways to educate people rather than give up and say the hell with it. We need to find ways to help people better themselves instead of throwing in the towel because effort is hard and maintaining a system of education matters.

According to the article you linked, the large majority of adults do not currently hold degrees. So if people are deciding their votes over this issue, your side is gonna lose in a landslide.

It sounds like you're bitter over the fact that you got screwed by a terrible educational system, so now you want everyone else to get screwed as well. That's not cool.

Sure, educational reform would be great. Make schools affordable, and have them actually teach skills that are relevant in the real world. Show me a politician who has a realistic plan to make these things happen and I'll vote for them in a heartbeat. But there's not a single politician out there running on that platform, because our school system is far too mired in layers and layers of bullshit to ever be salvaged. Honestly the only hope for ever improving our lot is if we burn it all down and rebuild from the ashes. Make existing degrees so worthless that the colleges all disappear, and then come up with a plan to replace them with something more functional.

[anewaname]

ex-Governor Hogan commented on Harris's "unnecessary degree requirements" statement and referred to a program he introduced in Maryland. Hogan was replaced as governor by Wes Moore who kept the program.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...the new governor will maintain an innovative Hogan policy, announced in March, whereby Maryland dropped the college-degree requirement for half of its 38,000 state jobs. Hogan appears to have been the first governor to open so many positions to workers sometimes described as “Skilled Through Alternative Routes,” or STARs, a term coined by advocates of the concept.

Hogan struck a blow for the notion that a bachelor’s degree does not automatically represent job-relevant skills and experience and that there are other ways — community college, military service, apprenticeship — to obtain them. “It’s time to debunk the fiction that a prestigious degree is the only key to the American dream,” Hogan wrote in an Oct. 4 Wall Street Journal op-ed. Among adults at least 25 years old in 2021, 62.1 percent lacked a four-year degree, according to the Census Bureau.

@femmelf
You are right to be upset about the situation you are in, but the situation you are in shouldn't have happened in the first place. Employers either want "replaceable workers" or "stable long-term workers", and attempting to apply a college degree to a job where the employer wants a "replaceable worker" does not work. Your best option is to find an employer who wants a "stable long-term worker" and work things out from there. I'm not saying that will be easy.

[Truean]

[Please do not quote]

Eh, I think she knows the freaking out / distress made it come off... less than ideal. This is a classic cry for help.  It's seemingly a response to stress and probably proposing that as an unreasonable alternative to show something else should be done, like an actual solution. For example, the tactic is to propose something undesirable to happen so someone comes up with a better solution.... Again, not ideal. We're working on it and directing towards appropriate resources so there's a better solution that ... let's just say could be phrased/ argued better and treat the underlying issue. . She seems to know this could be ... handled better. Work in progress.

As for your analysis. It's not per se unreasonable on the election conclusion, but like anything else it depends on a lot of variables.

You may be right on the election part:
You point out that many do not hold degrees and that is one argument of the current opposition to education affordability.
This has been a conservative talking point, "Why should people who didn't get to go to college pay for those who did?" YMMV (your mileage may vary).
However, I want an educated doctor who didn't have to worry about paying for his or her education so they can focus on my surgery.

However, it could also go the other way:
It could also go the other way (which it historically did) if it were pitched differently. Education used to be considered a public good. Student loans like this were not the norm. Medical school used to be comparatively affordable. Honestly, how else does anyone think any small towns had doctors at all back then? Today you can't go to medical school and come out with $500,000 in debt and then go practice in a small town easily. House calls? No longer practical. If there ends up being a plan to show the benefits of education, which historically used to be the case, then you've got a shot. If people believe that having an education is worth something and having those educated professionals (doctors, nurses, teachers, atty, engineer, etc) is worth it they might buy into it, and it could really pay off for everyone like it used to.

Value and what they teach:
I mean, I'm not in NASA. Traditionally there used to be a value attached to space travel and science and it paid off for society. (satellites, cordless power tools, computing and material science advances. Solar panel improvements, etc. there are a bunch of things NASA did). That said we used to pay a lot for NASA and we did it gladly back in the day. Now.... I meant the budget keeps getting cut. Recently there's been some headway with Artemis now that we're scared the Chinese might beat us in a race to get to the moon and stay there with a base..... As for what they actually teach, yeah, I've been saying some college courses aren't practical for a long time. You don't necessarily have to burn anything down to retool the curriculum. STEM isn't the magic answer but we might need a society with more focused engineers that can actually build things rather than just design them. Designing is an important part of it and if things are designed wrong, then it all goes bad. However, There's a difference between structural engineering and actually building it. Similarly, we need to make people learn how to actually do stuff that produces results.

Summation: Yes, acute stress from systems that need reform makes things come out wrong. That's being handled. You might be right about how education funding/affordability is perceived by the general public politically. However, if argued and phrased to show value to society it might be more the other way. Unfortunately, there may be some decisions we are not prepared to make as a society about education including what is taught and what that translates into practically in the real world. Colleges could include more critical thinking and skill based programs, with portions tailored more towards getting graduates employed in actual jobs. This could be done through actual (not the woefully inadequate) career services pipeline to produce what employers are willing to pay for. It could also involve service provision to pay off expensive degrees (e.g. medical care being provided in exchange for releasing debt) or something. Ultimately who knows. The solution isn't to burn things down but to build them up. We should ideally also not leave people behind, or else what's the point. There needs to be a better social/economic model than replaceable workers who get used up and abused. There needs to be a better way where people have an option to work/study and develop skills and improve themselves, their families and things around them. If you work hard and study hard you should get something for it and you shouldn't be screwed for working hard and studying hard. We don't need people screwed over for working and studying hard. Effort should mean something. Degrees should mean something and be useful. There can be a productive place for people if society can value that instead of more billionaire tax cuts. We don't need failing systems that leave broken dreams. We can rework the ones we have without crushing people. Things can be built back better.

Path Forward and the 1% setting traps for us/dividing and concurring us:
At some point, what do you tell an 18 year old to do today? There has be some reasonable path people can take to have some opportunity by striving to better themself. College should be a viable path. Teaching methods and substance can be reformed, along with cost. Similarly a lot of current economics runs off "disposable throw away workers" or "replaceable workers" as anewname very aptly said. This isn't sustainable for any economy and we need an alternative where striving to improve is valued so people can strive to improve themselves.These are our children, individually and the children of this country. There should not be a path that is billed as the way to success but becomes the road to ruin. Degrees can be and should be valuable, teach value, and be affordable. This is a net benefit to society both monetarily (higher education, higher income, higher income taxes paid) and in result of working smarter not harder. The defining trait of humanity is intelligence and problem solving: improve that.

Ultimately, this is a divide and concur trap the super rich are putting us in. Turning us against us while they loot everything. They'll ruin things for those with college degrees as surely as they will for those without. Destroying a pathway to a decent life and pitting "college degree jobs" against "non college degree jobs," clouds the issue. There is room for everyone in both if we force billionaires and corporations to actually be "job creators," you know like we paid them to be, with all those tax cuts? There should be plenty of jobs for everyone with college degrees and plenty of jobs for those without. We don't need to make billionaires into trillionaires.

Big corporation making $90 Million/year in profits and hiring a staff or $100 Million/year in profits with a skeleton crew
Some company would be just fine making $90 Million in profits per year while employing more people instead of $100 Million and a skeleton crew so no one gets customer service or quality. Plus hiring more people means more customers which means more sales. This is an artificial problem created by the top 1% and it doesn't need to exist, because it's hurting we the people and we the people can stop it if we can come together to do that. We gave them tax cuts. They need to give good jobs. We paid for it; they didn't deliver. Downsizing? Let's downsize those tax cuts.

[Please do not quote]

[Eschar]

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