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[hector13]

A creepy game. The only winning move is not to play.

No, it’s bog standard trolling. You keep responding, and I keep chuckling.

See the problem really is just common decency. If you treat someone like a dickhead, it shouldn’t be a surprise when they start acting like one.

(fyi, that’s called bait; remember the winning stratagem!)

[lemon10]

I'm not convinced the studies and comparisons between nations that do or don't have strict gun laws correctly factor in variables unrelated to gun availability.

For example, consider in US the significant geographical, cultural, and economic differences in gun violence rate.  Is it the availability of guns that matters, or something else? Is punishing responsible people worth it to keep irresponsible people from causing havoc? This is a deep cultural/philosophical question - and in the US, we do largely still are willing to let the guilty have freedoms so we don't limit the freedoms of the innocent.

When you realize it's not really about guns, and not about the deaths, but it really is about that fundamental worldview, where many think the possibility of violence is an acceptable price for individual liberty, that you start to understand why this is such a complex topic in the US.  There's "founding father" quotes to that effect even - "giving up liberty for security means you're undeserving of both," and all that.

Its clearly not the only factor (mental health, poverty, social isolation, culture, ect) all play big roles as well, but that doesn't mean its not one of the most important factor. If you completely removed poverty there would still be gun deaths. If you completely removed guns there would no longer be any gun deaths.
On the other hand if you gave everyone in the entire country a gun guess what, gun crime would obviously go way up.

Like this is really basic stuff, less guns = less chances to commit crimes/kill with guns = less gun crime and deaths.

[Frumple]

... and we're entirely aware that there's precious few things as deadly and damaging with as little effort as firearms, so even if you replace every gun crime with an equal number (hell, a higher number) of non-gun crimes, society in general is pretty damn certainly to still be better off.

Liberty to kill people at the drop of a hat isn't one worth a damn, really. Wait your X weeks or talk the gun range into letting you illegally remove it from the premises or somethin', there's plenty of options with better results than thoughts and prayers.

Not that it matters all that much. There's no political party of note interested in banning firearms to begin with, so talking about that from the perspective of stateside politics is just kinda' pointless. It's not on the table this generation. Maybe two or three from now, when the kids that spent their childhood doing shooter drills in kindergarten get political control and decide that yes, this shit is fucked up and we're going to stop being the only major country that has this problem.

[Folly]

When you realize it's not really about guns, and not about the deaths, but it really is about that fundamental worldview, where many think the possibility of violence is an acceptable price for individual liberty, that you start to understand why this is such a complex topic in the US.  There's "founding father" quotes to that effect even - "giving up liberty for security means you're undeserving of both," and all that.

If you sit around hyperanalyzing all day you'll inevitably reach the conclusion that any concept of freedom or liberty is illusory. From the instant we are spawned into this life restrictions are placed upon us which are impossible to fully escape, and our entire existence is spent figuring out how best to pass the time while carefully treading between those invisible lines.
But philosophical discourse does not change the simple fact that many societies have managed to eliminate mass shootings. We are choosing(or having the choice made for us) to continue allowing mass shootings just so that we can keep that invisible line shifted to a degree that most would never notice if it were moved the other way a bit.

[McTraveller]

Hey I didn't say I supported that argument with respect to gun rights... but it's pretty embedded in the culture and yes would take generation(s) to change that.

My personal stance is that I wish we lived in a world where people could have and use guns responsibly, but we don't, and therefore the hazard should be regulated accordingly.  Especially since the vast majority (something north of 75%) of firearm fatalities are due to legally-obtained guns.  It just makes sense to make it more difficult to carry, and in fewer places.  The data suggests that basically in any area more populated than "rural", you should not be allowed to carry, and really the only reason to carry at all is for hunting (hunters are, as a group, apparently quite responsible; they account for very very few of firearm fatalities).

[Truean]

[Please do not quote]

I'm not hanging around in this thread, because it's just often not ... yeah, but I'm just gonna leave this here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-republican-vice-president-dick-192700155.html

The only thing more shocking would be if Bush voted for her too.
I mean it just in the sense of shock value alone.

[Please do not quote]

[anewaname]

Another school shooting, Joppatowne, Maryland, one student fatally shot another student.

[Folly]

Another school shooting, Joppatowne, Maryland, one student fatally shot another student.

School shootings happen roughly twice per week in the US. People usually don't raise an eyebrow unless it's bad enough to be classified as a 'mass shooting'.

[EuchreJack]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/09/03/aurora-colorado-apartment-gang-police/75013215007/

[Frumple]

I've seen some chatter that "venezuelan gangs" has turned into prime RWNJ screeching lately for... whatever reason.

That something focused on it turns out to be a lie is "day that ends in y" territory, ha.

[Rolan7]

A creepy game. The only winning move is not to play.

No, it’s bog standard trolling. You keep responding, and I keep chuckling.

See the problem really is just common decency. If you treat someone like a dickhead, it shouldn’t be a surprise when they start acting like one.

(fyi, that’s called bait; remember the winning stratagem!)

Trolling is a art of getting disproportionate reaction with minimum effort.  You would not be the troll in this scenario.
But I didn't troll you, I attempted to deescalate and then ignored you to try to communicate my points with others.  Which only attracted more creepy effort from you.
That is not trolling, that is harassment.
Please remove yourself from every context in which you are behaving this way.

[hector13]

Oh, we’re still doing this?

I mean, I was going to say let’s put all our cards on the table, but they’re already there. I’ve already acknowledged I’m only engaging with you now to derive amusement at your expense. There’s no malice in it - I do genuinely hold some admiration for you, however much that means given our current interaction - I’m just taking advantage of your inability to ignore the compulsion to have the last word at this point. That’s not unique to you, it’s a pretty universal part of the human condition.

Petty and stupid and pointless, I know, but we all have our vices.

So at this point I’m just seeing how many times I can get you to post after you acknowledged that your only winning move is not to post. I thought my last post would do it, but… well, here we are.

If you want to continue this I can figure out a few lines about your last post. We can make it a teachable moment, “how to deal with trolling 101” or something.

[Frumple]

If you want to continue this I can figure out a few lines about your last post. We can make it a teachable moment, “how to deal with trolling 101” or something.

It's definitely one of those. Puts the arguments you've been having with strongpoint, behavior in general, in an entirely different light.

Guess it's shame on the rest of us for ever putting any stock in your posts, ha.

[Folly]

Another mass shooting, this time on a highway in Kentucky. Currently ongoing, no numbers yet.

At this rate it seems likely that we will have some gun-related questions in the upcoming presidential debate, and the stances of the respective candidates may become an influential factor in the election.

EDIT:
Only 5 shot, no fatalities, all expected to recover. However the shooter is still out there!

[hector13]

If you want to continue this I can figure out a few lines about your last post. We can make it a teachable moment, “how to deal with trolling 101” or something.

It's definitely one of those. Puts the arguments you've been having with strongpoint, behavior in general, in an entirely different light.

Guess it's shame on the rest of us for ever putting any stock in your posts, ha.

Podoby’s nerfect.

A fair analysis though.

I shall return to using my powers for good. Sorry Rolan.