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[Criptfeind]

Is this really the worst thing he's done, the straw that'd break the camels back? I'd say, no, this isn't nearly as bad as January 6th (although it might be easier to prosecute, eventually, if it comes to that.) If someones blindly backed him to this point I find it doubtful that this would be what breaks their support for him. If people are doubtful and quiet now I'd guess it's just because of the standard reaction to the right wing doing some morally or legally reprehensible, their supporters suffer from cognitive dissonance for a few days until their brainwashing source of choice tells them what to think about it and they go right back into the fold, ignoring any thoughts about returning to sanity they might have held.

I think peoples minds MIGHT change if trump ends up in jail over this, although I wouldn't hold my breath either.

[Frumple]

It's not the worst thing by a long shot, but it is unquestionably the most straightforwardly illegal thing he's done. Like, there's a lot of flak that could and did get thrown over all the other illegal/immoral shit he's done, but fucking off with classified documents is just... there's no "well actually" position that's particularly likely to stick. Shitgibbon fucked up in a way that's just incredibly blatant and obvious even to folks otherwise inclined towards carrying water for the guy, and in a way that's really hard to prevaricate over, and is likely to get a lot of powerful people particularly pissed off with him in ways we haven't really seen before.

Literally anyone else might not even make it to jail after walking off with a pile of top secret documentation. It's the kind of shit that gets other people quietly disappeared to some black site and never heard from again. It's harder to cognitive dissonance this particular thing away.

[bloop_bleep]

Biden based now?

[EuchreJack]

Well, to give you a Republican's viewpoint on the whole Trump Files case, I can't help but think "So What?"

He tried to keep some files, much the same as Hillary Clinton. Granted, Hillary wasn't as bad, since she didn't have any physical files off-site, but this is an expansion of that.
.... remember, I'm one of the more sane Republicans.

This ain't gonna be the thing that sinks Trump. BUT, it could be the thing that leads to an investigation that might turn up something at least some Republicans might not be able to forgive.

[EuchreJack]

At least right now, the broadened perspective I'm getting is consistently "you're dangerous" and "kill yourself." I don't mean to say that on a permanent basis I'm d - o - n - e, but I need to adjust my expectations for the new environment instead of constantly giving myself psychic damage.

Also because people are stressed I'm currently getting stomped on by cis women as an anti-feminist from whom they need to protect themselves, cis men as a deluded freak, trans men as an "incomplete" version of themselves, and trans women as a "gay woman" who makes them look bad. This is in my literal, physical present social environment. I know it's not ALL bad -- it isn't actually, literally, "everyone." But I want to spend the time that I have to myself for reading building myself up, not reading more "LGB drop the T" or "I'm a real trans, nonbinaries are fake" drivel that is making up 99% of present online comment sections.

Everyone is being nasty to Everyone these days. I swear, people are just looking for an excuse to brutalize their fellow human beings. And our politicians are enabling that behavior with the inhumane laws they are backing, on both sides.

Maybe limiting your exposure to certain types of media until after the elections makes sense. Personally, I'd still be checking mainstream national news, if for no other reason than to gauge relative safety levels and the amount of openness that is safe in the current environment.

[hector13]

Well, to give you a Republican's viewpoint on the whole Trump Files case, I can't help but think "So What?"

He tried to keep some files, much the same as Hillary Clinton. Granted, Hillary wasn't as bad, since she didn't have any physical files off-site, but this is an expansion of that.
.... remember, I'm one of the more sane Republicans.

This ain't gonna be the thing that sinks Trump. BUT, it could be the thing that leads to an investigation that might turn up something at least some Republicans might not be able to forgive.

I mean… she gave the emails to the people she was supposed to and deleted (well… the company hosting the server did) what she thought were irrelevant, if my 2am off the top of the dome remembering is in point.

As far as I’m aware she didn’t keep any literally super duper secret shit in her office drawers, where anyone who has access to the office could come across them.

[dragdeler]

The rightosphere is being very dense again, joe should funnel his inner dad (the one thing he kinda doesn't suck at I guess?) and make a long speech how y'all just lost your lighting priviledges, no more exciting lights at political speeches from this president no since y'all can't handle it. See them be real vocal about the beuaty of colors (...).


The world is so silly.

[Frumple]

Well, to give you a Republican's viewpoint on the whole Trump Files case, I can't help but think "So What?"

He tried to keep some files, much the same as Hillary Clinton.

Clinton cooperated entirely with the investigation into the email server from the start, the biggest hiccup on that front being on the part of a third party. She didn't try to "keep some files", some classified information was mishandled, but it was in ways that were largely casual or accidental (the emails they were in weren't themselves classified, so it was a very different beast from what trump did just from that), and as far as I'm aware entirely in conversations between people that had clearance to be seeing it. She didn't try to keep shit, there was just information that got included in other conversations that probably shouldn't have been, particularly not through email.

Trump, on the other hand, literally stole physical copies of blatantly classified documentation, clearly labeled as such in big ol' bright letters. This wasn't poorly considered reference to information that shouldn't have been talked about in a specific venue, it was literal theft of entire classified documents. He then repeatedly refused to cooperate with the return of the material he stole, had his lawyer affirmatively lie about returning it, and has since been spitting out a pile of contradictory statements on the subject and attempting to gum up investigation and retrieval efforts into the stolen documentation. That's without even touching the security issues, 'cause for all the problems with the email handling, what went on at MAL is an entire different level of mishandling.

They're very different beasts on more than a few different levels, from the act itself to how the people involved are responding to it. "Just an expansion" is wildly downplaying how much worse what trump did was.

And our politicians are enabling that behavior with the inhumane laws they are backing, on both sides.

And I'm sure you actually have citation for that both sides? Because there's definitely no question that, at a minimum, the scale of inhumane laws being proposed, and even more importantly implemented, is not balanced across the political spectrum right now, even a little.

It's pretty likely there's currently more laws against transgender girls participating in K-12 sports than there are transgender girls participating in K-12 sports, just as one bloody example out of too damn many.

[Criptfeind]

It's harder to cognitive dissonance this particular thing away.

6 hours and two posts harder apparently.

[MrRoboto75]

It's harder to cognitive dissonance this particular thing away.

6 hours and two posts harder apparently.

but her emails

[Frumple]

Harder doesn't mean impossible, no. Just more difficult, especially among folks that aren't constantly barraged with buttery mails tier junk.

Remains to be seen the exact impact, but considering the DOJ's been pretty on top of things since the warrant search happened, well... there's better grounds than usual to think it's going to have a pretty strong effect.

E: Did later occur to me it's something of a strange comparison to begin with... the american right wing has spent the last three or so years basically losing their goddamn minds over those emails, and seem to believe everything up to and including extralegal imprisonment and execution are appropriate consequences for it. So that's the appropriate level of concern to be had, here?

[Vector]

Everyone is being nasty to Everyone these days. I swear, people are just looking for an excuse to brutalize their fellow human beings. And our politicians are enabling that behavior with the inhumane laws they are backing, on both sides.

I'm not talking about being rude. I'm talking about the kind of mental and physical stress that comes from knowing that pre-contact Native American cultures had specific, integrated roles in their communities for people like me and that we were considered lucky; and this was one of the primary justifications for the various settler nations killing 99% of the 250 million that were here then. That genocide was very recent and it didn't end with liberation, as you know.

Trans people happen when the wave of hormones that forms your genitals in utero doesn't match the wave of hormones that gendered your brain.

In that context, when you have Kari Lake's friend posting videos about how he's gonna kill every one of us he can find in the state of Arizona, it hits different. It becomes clearer that all of these laws are not just because "so-and-so is prejudiced and hasn't met the right trans person." This is about the founding values of our country.

Living as a person who people perceive as combining the worst of both sexes with the protections of neither is very hard.

[Dostoevsky]

Most of these discussions and up anecdotal comparisons, so there is never really a definitive point, but from what I've been seeing at least there is an uptick of anger against 'non-standard' gender & sexuality. It seems like reactionary folks have been able to catch a ride on some of the covid-era anti-government rage, and certain elements of the trumpist media realm have latched onto a thousand different 'groomer' and other 'save the children' theories, in some cases following a thread going all the way back to Comet pizza.

That said, it's an eclectic mix of hotspots as opposed to being a national wave. Polling hasn't really shown an uptick of hate, as far as I've seen, though if you had polling that drilled down to state-by-state numbers I suspect you'd see some particularly hostile ones.

[Vector]

Yeah, there's been about a 400% increase in online hate speech this year.

Hence liberating myself from the comment section blender. But a lot of my friends are taking an opportunity to get educated.

[Lord Shonus]

Trump, on the other hand, literally stole physical copies of blatantly classified documentation, clearly labeled as such in big ol' bright letters.

This is an understatement. From the published photographed cover sheets, pretty much anybody here would earn a lengthy prison sentence for being in the same room as some of these documents. A fair bit of it is "born classified" - the law considers it to be top secret from the moment the information exists. Some of these are so sensitive that it is a Federal crime to have them in the White House - they're supposed to be locked in an ultra-tight office in an ultra-secure building.