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[martinuzz]

I would probably shoot a home intruder, looking at it realistically.

Panic is hell of a drug. I would at least try to aim at the legs so they're immobilized and then call the police. If they die, then "play stupid games win stupid prizes".

This whole line of thought is so completely and utterly alien to someone who lives in a country where civilians don't own guns.

[Frumple]

Realistically, they're more likely to shoot family, lose the weapon to the burglar and get shot, or just get shot first, from what's pretty well known at this point. Panic is a hell of a drug -- the sort of drug that makes you real goddamn terrible at handling a firearm.

The statistics on home defense like that aren't exactly great for the resident

[Cthulhu]

Home defense is kind of a meme, the average fudd imagines an unarmed guy with a ski mask climbing through his window who gets scared off by the sound of a shotgun racking.  He loads birdshot in his home defense mossberg because "it'll ruin a guy's day if you shoot him in the face."  He's an idiot and thankfully he'll almost certainly never have to find out how dumb he is.

The real solution to avoiding violent crime is to move somewhere violent crime doesn't happen.  I live in a rural working class area where everybody has guns and the last murder was like eight years ago.  Other violent crime is slightly more common but limited mostly to people involved in the drug trade.

I'm still gonna own guns because they're cool and fun.

[RedKing]

What if somebody broke into your outbuilding because they're homeless and are looking for a place to not die in the elements? What if they stole a blanket off a clothesline? Is that a shooting offence?

You want my honest answer? Yes. Being homeless doesn't give you the right to take from others. Of course I know other people will disagree. This is fine with me. I don't expend emotional effort caring about things outside my control; it's a waste of time and just makes people unhappy.

Cool. As long as we're on record that you'd shoot someone for stealing a blanket to avoid freezing to death.
Incidentally, this is why I laugh my ass off at rural MAGAts claiming things like "Out here, we HELP each other".
Nah, bro. You help the people you already know, and everyone else is just a potential threat. They do that in the cities too, it's called gangs.

[KittyTac]

I would probably shoot a home intruder, looking at it realistically.

Panic is hell of a drug. I would at least try to aim at the legs so they're immobilized and then call the police. If they die, then "play stupid games win stupid prizes".

This whole line of thought is so completely and utterly alien to someone who lives in a country where civilians don't own guns.

Here few people do either-- and then it's mostly for home defense.

Nonlethal means are still more popular and I'd prefer to just taze them or something.

[Starver]

This whole line of thought is so completely and utterly alien to someone who lives in a country where civilians don't own guns.

Never mind civilians, an overwhelming number of our police aren't armed (edit: ...with firearms).

When I worked in Berlin, the strangest thing (the language aside) was seeing the local coppers with sidearms holstered. In the years since then, our own forces now seem to have more 'batbelts' with some form of spray available when required, as well as the handy quick-cuffs/extendible-baton. And maybe a bulky tazer unit of some kind, but far from universally. Anything more is the exception.

Back in the heady days while certain high-profile shopping centre 'malls' and city-centres were busy places that I regularly visited (more for window-shopping/snack-shops, or just as a cut-through between transport interchange and my true destination) there were occasional patrols of what I still (erroneously) call "SO19" patrols (blame The Bill), especially since 7/7, the various London bridges' incidents, Manchester Arena, etc. 'Slung+held downward' H&K and holstered Glock, I presume, but I'm far too British to have ever asked. (Personal awkwardness, that is, not any fear that the officers would take exception or anything - being British themselves, they'd probably politely tell me anything they're actually allowed to!)

Odd though, to imagine such weapons around. In any segment of society. I've actually had a (criminal) shooting within half a mile of my home of the time, where I'd lived maybe 20 years, and an unknown incident (never explicitly checked what[1]), that involved officers and police-tape closing off a section of the next street over. Neither changed any thoughts I had about my own safety, though. Far more clear danger from recklessly driven cars and motorbikes on the very same streets. Never had my home invaded by burglars/other forms of criminals. I've been mugged once, and that was entirely weaponless. It was a case of opportunistic brute force and my being outnumbered three-to-one... in a mutually armed version of the situation I'd have been no better off, maybe worse!

Not to make this a 'gun control' thing, just to say how very different it seems to be (and therefore is) between places. It's probably a big reason (amongst other more mundane ones) why I've never seriously considered living in the US (probably NW coastal states as far as I've developed any general preferences). Though I've walked round bits of Massachusetts and Pennsylvania (no sidewalks on the country roads!) in my free time on occasions I've been there on business. Maybe unknowingly been in the crosshairs of some backwoods landowners, staring out from their forest-shielded house-fronts, not realising that this stranger is just a bemused Limey taking a road-map inspired jaunt - only to kill some hours...


[1] From comments by the crowd, as I skirted round the blockage to the woodland path behind, and the 'memorial' decor replenished for years with LED 'candles' and bright ribboned things upon iron fencing, might have been a 'domestic' where a man died, perhaps at the hands of an (arguably) wronged female partner. Though then likely to have been an impromptu knife, that.

[Vector]

Outside authority can go fuck itself, as can law.

OK, yep, our perspectives are incompatible.

[nenjin]

Outside authority can go fuck itself, as can law.

Sounds like complete tough guy bullshit to me.

[Arx]

I think it's just emblematic of the American Problem: an obsession with personal liberties leading to considering oneself withdrawn from the national society. Any of you guys know or care about Islamist groups in Kenya? Probably not, and that's totally fine as it's not your country or even your continent, and you don't benefit substantially from Kenya in any specific way.

As far as I can tell, that's the view Spin is espousing: why care about the Mexican border? Why care about the police? Why care about Los Angeles? They're not his community. Which would be fine, if he didn't benefit from the existence of the national community. If everyone adopted the same mindset, I'd imagine America would look like Southern Africa in the 17th century. More guns, though.

The national social contract might seem silly in deep rural areas, but it's what manufactures or imports those cars that are so important and it's what sustains the internet we're arguing on and opting out of that contract is selfish and short sighted.

Amateur social analysis, anyway. I might be terribly wrong. Spin probably disagrees with me, at least on it being short sighted and selfish. I've never actually been to America, either. Or maybe we'll go down a side track about Kenya, but please don't it's just an analogy.

[hector13]

This is Ameripol pal; ‘murrican exceptionalism obviously means absolutely zero parallels can be drawn between the modern American experience and anything else! To even think otherwise is idiocy of the highest order.

[Random_Dragon]

No man is an island, basically. Or to put it in terms that sort of person will be more familiar with: We live in a society.

[Maximum Spin]

As far as I can tell, that's the view Spin is espousing: why care about the Mexican border? Why care about the police? Why care about Los Angeles? They're not his community.

No, my view is that, since I don't have any control over those things, it's not my business. I can still have opinions on them, but I choose not to feel sad or worried about them in any way, because I would be making myself miserable for no reason.

[MrRoboto75]

No man is an island, basically. Or to put it in terms that sort of person will be more familiar with: We live in a society.

No man's an island but BOY is everyone digging moats

[Jopax]

A society that has a worrying amount of "Fuck you, got mine" folks in it. Hell, you could view most of the GOP folks as having that mindset considering how much hate they have for any sort of social welfare or even basic fucking empathy.

[Doomblade187]

A society that has a worrying amount of "Fuck you, got mine" folks in it. Hell, you could view most of the GOP folks as having that mindset considering how much hate they have for any sort of social welfare or even basic fucking empathy.

Haven't you heard? Even the concept of empathy scares the talk radio conservatives! It's weak and feminine!