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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4228088 times)

Random_Dragon

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40980 on: October 26, 2020, 06:41:00 pm »

Is he setting up a ministry to approve and ban certain forms of speech that could harm his power?  He's a bit grumpy, but with Twitter trying to fact check his tweets, there's kinda a push in the opposite direction, as the main focus is kinda (c)(2) of Section 230 that allows for moderation of sites.

I find the idea of "calling it censorship when someone responds to misinformation with links to additional context" as hilarious as it is disingenuous. Now taking down tweets, maybe that could be interpreted as such, nevermind that the 1st amendment's protection concerns what the government does, not companies. But the inciting incident was clearly a case of "they're undermining my bullshit so now I want to push a law that'll let me fuck with social media companies who do things I don't like"

Which is, by the way, a lot closer to the sort of thing the 1st amendment is intended to protect against.
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On DF Wiki · On DFFD

"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40981 on: October 26, 2020, 06:46:03 pm »

Is he setting up a ministry to approve and ban certain forms of speech that could harm his power?  He's a bit grumpy, but with Twitter trying to fact check his tweets, there's kinda a push in the opposite direction, as the main focus is kinda (c)(2) of Section 230 that allows for moderation of sites.

I find the idea of "calling it censorship when someone responds to misinformation with links to additional context" as hilarious as it is disingenuous. Now taking down tweets, maybe that could be interpreted as such, nevermind that the 1st amendment's protection concerns what the government does, not companies. But the inciting incident was clearly a case of "they're undermining my bullshit so now I want to push a law that'll let me fuck with social media companies who do things I don't like"

Which is, by the way, a lot closer to the sort of thing the 1st amendment is intended to protect against.

Slipped with summarizing things brutally because I tend to like to do things *other* than debate politics that are actually fun.  The tweet thing was an inciting incident for him to pay a bit of attention to the basic bitch conservatives that get yeeted.
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40982 on: October 26, 2020, 06:50:33 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:08:54 pm by dragdeler »
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40983 on: October 26, 2020, 06:55:52 pm »

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Is he calling for the destruction of Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment thought?  Nope, he's appealing to the ideals of America that were founded upon that in an interpretation about 30 years old rather than some new philosophy based on hundreds of years ago.

Where do you think "All Men Are Created Equal" comes from? Enlightenment thought. Does that track with locking illegal immigrants in cages, separating them from their families, refusing them medical treatment and yes, forced sterilization? That's not the "destruction of enlightenment thought", that's acting as though they never existed in the first place. Trump isn't going to deconstruct a specific ideal, he's just going to trample it and play dumb when asked about it.

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Is he calling for the subsumation of the person to the state?  Nope, he's even kinda railing against it with trying to lift the lockdowns which could easily be used on to indefinite for all manner of authoritarian crap.

No, he's trying to dismantle the federal government so people can do whatever they want at the local level without interference from anybody that has authority to say no. Who do you think forcibly made the South integrate since the Civil War? Who looked out for minority rights and ensured they were enforced to the best of their ability? People always go on about the tyranny of government and the boogie man and specter of the ALL STATE. Funny how they forget that it's the federal government that stepped in to protect people's rights as well. The specter of Federal Tyranny is far, far less real to me that the quantifiable threat of local tyranny when there is no one watching what they're doing.

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Is he seizing guns like literally every authoritarian regime does in order to make resistance harder?  Nope, only really talking about bump stocks and that kinda hasn't gone anywhere.

No, he's doing something arguably as bad, by encouraging people to be paranoid, buy more guns, take the law into their own hands, even as those same paranoid anti-government elements rail about a different, SECRET government they need to be ready to retaliate against. He is promoting chaos under the guise of personal liberty because it provides cover for what his administration actually spends its time doing, which is radically altering the way government operates. See: the post office, how experts in government are classed as far as their hiring and firing goes, the list just bloody goes on....

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Is he setting up a ministry to approve and ban certain forms of speech that could harm his power?  He's a bit grumpy, but with Twitter trying to fact check his tweets, there's kinda a push in the opposite direction, as the main focus is kinda (c)(2) of Section 230 that allows for moderation of sites.

No, he's going the opposite direction. Say anything you want, no matter how inaccurate, defamatory, dangerous, derogatory or inciting it is. Unless it's said about him though, then fuck you, I'll sue your ass. Again, anything to create more chaos, because chaos = cover. If anyone can say anything then everyone's energy will be wasted chasing their tails and calling each other out, instead of finding out what the fuck is actually going on.

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Is he establishing a ministry of industry to install governmental managers into businesses and potentially take them over whenever the state deems compliance of an uncomplaint business is necessary?  Nope.

No, he just sent in the National Guard to perform covid tests at hospitals because "doctors can't be trusted." That's a dry run of what you're describing, where the government according to him knows best when he decides it knows best.

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There is a gulf between what he's doing and legit fascism.

No one said he was competent. But much of what he's doing has all the earmarks of early fascism. I'm only thankful that his "charisma" seems to only affect some people, maybe it's a gullibility gene or something that makes you susceptible to shady pitches from greasy used car salesmen, which is how I've seen him since I was a kid.

If he were an actual leader with broad (as opposed to exceptionally narrow) charismatic appeal, and having even a hint of subtlety, we might already be up shit creek without a paddle. As it is, he's more like an elephant in a china shop, smashing culture, laws, mores, propriety, integrity, blindly aside as he lumbers towards his objective, which is making as much money off being president as possible and trying to secure future political entrenchment for his friends and family. And also setting Americans at each others throats because it's entertaining to him. Like trashy reality TV!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 07:06:57 pm by nenjin »
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40984 on: October 26, 2020, 06:56:09 pm »

I don't feel like the CIA doing coups (which I deem highly criminal) has exactly the same agression potential as overt airstrikes, because of the whole plausable deniability thing. It's incredible how much propz Trump gets for everything. There is no shortage of people calling him anti-war when I tried his damn best to get Iran to escalate.

That's mostly because Thanks Obama
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40985 on: October 26, 2020, 07:02:08 pm »

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At least Obama admitted it sometimes whenever he blew up a bunch of kids or a wedding. Trump barred reporting on the strikes and we still know he's done more in four years than Obama did in eight.

The shadow war is a part of the US system, but Trump absolutely chose to accelerate it. He's even tried to get tactical-scale nukes deployed.

The above is the post I would post in response to that, but this is where I reference back to trying to futilely sway supporters of the right. Zan is demonstrating exactly that attitude I mark as intractable - making excuses for the right. There's no getting around that. You can always make an excuse for any action.
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40986 on: October 26, 2020, 07:10:37 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:08:59 pm by dragdeler »
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40987 on: October 26, 2020, 07:30:16 pm »

I mean, you can try.

About the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the figleaf to folks that want the US kneecapped. If you consider it being weakened as a positive and the immiseration of its populous as an acceptable price to pay for it, well, there's one. Don't think there's any other ones, though, especially not consistent ones. The man's character, behavior, and actions current and past are mostly just kinda' shit.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40988 on: October 26, 2020, 07:31:10 pm »

The above is the post I would post in response to that, but this is where I reference back to trying to futilely sway supporters of the right. Zan is demonstrating exactly that attitude I mark as intractable - making excuses for the right. There's no getting around that. You can always make an excuse for any action.

Merely trying to inject a modicum of chill because it is damn near alien when it comes to politics.  I have several complaints of the man (I'm a minarchist that wants the federal government gutted down to military, foreign relations, and interstate disputes with a forced balanced budget and all other things dropped to state-level if not county or even town/city to bring power as close to the people as possible.  You don't think I have some gripes?).  Never really am able to voice them because every time I get the feeling to do so because every place I vaguely want to maybe voice them has flared to him only able to do wrong over the past four years from everyone who's remotely chill having decided to leave three years ago at least, and I feel obligated to say at least something to defend the guy so the end of the world stuff calms a bit.

Ah well.  Maybe in a few years.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40989 on: October 26, 2020, 07:31:32 pm »

Anyway Barrett just got confirmed.

sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40990 on: October 26, 2020, 07:40:30 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's like they were reading this thread today. Granted it describes much of the world in general lately.
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40991 on: October 26, 2020, 07:47:47 pm »

But we weren't hostile.  We weren't vicious.  Hell, what do they need?  I want to help people move towards the left, but most of the time I do so, I'm confronted with this kind of nonsense.  And combating the nonsense is treated as an attack.

It's not an attack on you! You're probably a fellow worker.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40992 on: October 26, 2020, 07:50:39 pm »

So it begins, they decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on her which means McConnell figures Trump is fucked but dems won't retaliate by undoing his years of quiet court packing.

Also forced balanced budget? Federal budget?

Federal budget deficits means there is more money floating around in our pockets, unlike a local government running a budget deficit which means they're short on tax revenue which they need to collect to offset actual spending because they're funded that way.

Similarly the federal government running a debt bears no resemblance to even a state or municipal government debt, though at least those local debts are more similar to what a household budget carrying a debt implies.

Trying to make a sovereign government balance a budget is absurd, and doing it under the guise of austerity is monstrous. "We can't afford this..." uh, bitch, you can literally afford anything you're willing to spend money you issue on which whoever you are buying it from believes is viable as currency.

For those who said not to tolerate the intolerant: proud of you!

As for the idea that you can't motivate people with spite?

I'll show you, I'll show you all!
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40993 on: October 26, 2020, 08:11:06 pm »

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« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:09:04 pm by dragdeler »
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Egan_BW

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #40994 on: October 26, 2020, 08:14:35 pm »

If cans of coke grew on trees, everyone would die around 14.
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