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[Maximum Spin]

Not really, there was a whole thing over this several years back.

[delphonso]

A coin's lifespan is much longer than a note. We should be replacing 1 - 10 dollar bills with coins so we can jangle as we walk around.

MaxSpin do you really think most people are effectively "choosing" to struggle? I'm certain people make bad investments (abstractly, time, effort, etc) but you have to recognize that there are elements outside of peoples' control which push them down the economic ladder. Far more than raise them up. Medical bills and student debt being the two most obvious.

[Reelya]

The cost of replacing $1 bills apparently amounts to $500 million per year in federal costs compared to making the equivalent coins across their lifespan. They should have some balls and just abolish the $1 bill. Added together with other reforms and that's getting towards $1 billion in direct federal costs reduced, which is nothing to sneeze at, and there is evidence of other benefits for transactions which would help the economy (just round to the nearest nickel and stop everyone pissing about with pennies).

Maximum Spin, I can find a lot of articles against the penny pointing out the costs to make them but none with anyone saying there's evidence that they help the economy, do you have evidence of that?

https://www.thebalance.com/get-rid-of-the-penny-4178219

In 2019, the U.S. Mint made 7.04 billion pennies, costing taxpayers $145 million.

None of the 'pro' reasons for keeping the penny ascribe any actual economic benefit to doing so.

[Maximum Spin]

MaxSpin do you really think most people are effectively "choosing" to struggle? I'm certain people make bad investments (abstractly, time, effort, etc) but you have to recognize that there are elements outside of peoples' control which push them down the economic ladder. Far more than raise them up. Medical bills and student debt being the two most obvious.

Student debt is 100% a choice. Most medical bills are lifestyle-related, too.

Maximum Spin, I can find a lot of articles against the penny pointing out the costs to make them but none with anyone saying there's evidence that they help the economy, do you have evidence of that?

It's been a long-ass time since I read about it, but, as I recall, the argument was predicated on a profit the Fed makes when banks have old currency replaced with new. You might be able to find something from that.

[Reelya]

The Fed presumably makes 1 penny per penny replaced, minus costs.

It costs 2 pennies worth of metal to make however. There's no conceptual way that's making a profit. It's a shell game that's clearly losing money.

[delphonso]

Pennies are used multiple times, though. Also money is imaginary so it doesn't matter.

[Maximum Spin]

You have no idea what it's like to struggle, yet you feel entitled to make sweeping pronouncements about how it's their own fault.

No, you're right, I have no idea what it's like to struggle, even though I was brought up by a single mother making wages less than $30k (over half of which she saved up). She has no idea what it's like to struggle either, and she grew up on a literal farm. Because there's no need to struggle when you allocate scarce resources well.

$30K when? I was raised by my grandparents on roughly $30K a year, which back in the 1980s would actually net you a decent lower-middle class lifestyle and even allow you to afford healthcare and maybe send a kid to school.

I missed this edit. I was born in the 90s, so late 90s-mostly 00s.

The Fed presumably makes 1 penny per penny replaced, minus costs.

Why on earth would you presume that? For one thing, it gets the worn penny back which can be recycled.

[Reelya]

It doesn't matter how often they're used, that's not the point. Not having them at all would mean the cost isn't incurred.

It's a different matter to the case between the $1 bill vs $1 note. In that case, both those things cost less than $1 to make, so how often they're reused makes a difference.

Why on earth would you presume that? For one thing, it gets the worn penny back which can be recycled.

Since when is it cheaper to recycle things? That just costs more, not less.

[Maximum Spin]

Since when is it cheaper to recycle things? That just costs more, not less.

It is when you have to make a new one anyway, the object is made out of metal, and you just recast it?

[MrRoboto75]

tbh the general shift to electronic/cashless payment such as by debit card has probably saved a good amount in terms of minting cash

[delphonso]

China has shifted to almost purely digital payments. This pandemic even got me to change to digital payments even though I've been a cash guy my whole life.

[Reelya]

Since when is it cheaper to recycle things? That just costs more, not less.

It is when you have to make a new one anyway, the object is made out of metal, and you just recast it?

Have you missed the thing where they more or less can't pay people to take materials away for recycling, let alone giving it away. Recycling it is basically the cost of reprocessing all over again.

If it was cheaper to recycle coins then they'd exclusively use recycled materials in coins already, but they don't.

[Maximum Spin]

Recycling it is basically the cost of reprocessing all over again.

The cost of reprocessing, but not the cost of materials.

[Reelya]

Recycling it is basically the cost of reprocessing all over again.

The cost of reprocessing, but not the cost of materials.

I really don't get it, you're defending a practice that takes X amount of something, and turns it into something with X/2 amount of face-value and ... you can't see how that's completely wasteful? People take those coins themselves and melt them down for scrap since the scrap exceeds the purchase price. It's the kind of thing you can build organized crime off. (also note there's a large amount of losses - coins that don't come back, for this and other reasons).

https://www.procon.org/headlines/should-the-penny-stay-in-circulation-top-3-pros-and-cons/

Comedian John Oliver noted, “Two percent of Americans admitted to regularly throwing pennies in the garbage, which means the US Mint is spending millions to make garbage.” [21] Two-thirds of the billions of pennies produced are never seen in circulation again once they reach a consumer via the bank. [22]

[wierd]

Since when is it cheaper to recycle things? That just costs more, not less.

It is when you have to make a new one anyway, the object is made out of metal, and you just recast it?

There's a problem there.

Pennies are made of a thin copper jacket, surrounding a zinc slug.  Have been since 1982. They are not solid copper.  Smelting them down and recasting them is going to be labor intensive, as you will not get pure metals as a result.

This was done precisely for this very reason; People were getting pennies, then smelting them into copper ingots, then selling the copper.  There was sufficient difference in valuation from raw metal to face-value of currency that this was profitable for people to do.  The Govt was not amused.