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[JoshuaFH]

And it occurs to me that if "police" are just roving around, in an unmarked vehicle, with nothing to identify them as police, that some people might come to the conclusion "these aren't police" and then open fire on them in self-defense. Cause if they aren't identifying themselves as police, then they're clearly some weird camouflage-wearing terrorists, and who wouldn't defend themselves against such a threat?

Just checking...

You do know that this is the basis of a lot of police violence incidents and miscarriages of justice, right?  Such as with Breonna Taylor.  Police decide it's a great idea fairly often to terrorize people in plain clothes without identifying themselves, and then respond with excessive violence and legal charges when their victims attempt self-defense or are non-compliant when they have no idea they're interacting with law enforcement.  Bonus points when there was zero legal or ethical justification for the interaction in the first place, as with the Breonna Taylor case, again.  That's not an uncommon, isolated incident.  It happens quite a lot.

I actually didn't know that

[Rolan7]

Related to that, no-knock warrants have become pretty much standard for drug busts (including "anonymous called and said that guy had a weed plant in his closet", AKA "SWAT-ing").  A no-knock warrant is obviously an invitation for trouble, because the entire point is that the police invade a home without identifying themselves first.  I think they're supposed to shout "POLICE" a bunch once they're inside, so uh... Americans are all expected to be ready to react appropriately for every 5 seconds of their entire life, I guess. 

Also there are a lot of cases where they probably didn't bother to even shout.  They also get the wrong address, what, 10% of the time?  It's at least that.  The address they were given, anonymously.

Then blah blah civil forfeiture letting them take everything they decide is drug-related, even if you are cleared of all charges...  commonly including your car... Ever feel like the war on drugs and the war on terror work at cross purposes?

[Egan_BW]

Hope that we get commercially available shotgun autoturrets soon. That's probably the best way to deter no-knock invasions. Yeah, that's the world I want to live in.

[Lord Shonus]

I forget where it was, but there's been some recent cases where plainclothes cops got blown away for raids or attempted arrests, and the case was ruled self defense on "how the fuck was he supposed to know that was a cop" grounds.

[Iduno]

I forget where it was, but there's been some recent cases where plainclothes cops got blown away for raids or attempted arrests, and the case was ruled self defense on "how the fuck was he supposed to know that was a cop" grounds.

Also a lot of civilians who died trying to defend themselves, especially when the cops had the wrong address.

Related to that, no-knock warrants have become pretty much standard for drug busts (including "anonymous called and said that guy had a weed plant in his closet", AKA "SWAT-ing").  A no-knock warrant is obviously an invitation for trouble, because the entire point is that the police invade a home without identifying themselves first.  I think they're supposed to shout "POLICE" a bunch once they're inside, so uh... Americans are all expected to be ready to react appropriately for every 5 seconds of their entire life, I guess. 

Also there are a lot of cases where they probably didn't bother to even shout.  They also get the wrong address, what, 10% of the time?  It's at least that.  The address they were given, anonymously.

Then blah blah civil forfeiture letting them take everything they decide is drug-related, even if you are cleared of all charges...  commonly including your car... Ever feel like the war on drugs and the war on terror work at cross purposes?

When they got my neighbor, they kicked in the door, yelled "warrant, warrant, warrant", pistol-whipped him, threw in a flash-bang, then beat him unconscious.

They were real mad they didn't find anything, so they smashed everything he owned. TV, furniture, walls, everything in the fridge/pantry, tore up his clothing, everything.

[Lord Shonus]

I forget where it was, but there's been some recent cases where plainclothes cops got blown away for raids or attempted arrests, and the case was ruled self defense on "how the fuck was he supposed to know that was a cop" grounds.

Also a lot of civilians who died trying to defend themselves, especially when the cops had the wrong address.

My point was more that the judiciary is openly getting really tired of this shit

[Iduno]

I forget where it was, but there's been some recent cases where plainclothes cops got blown away for raids or attempted arrests, and the case was ruled self defense on "how the fuck was he supposed to know that was a cop" grounds.

Also a lot of civilians who died trying to defend themselves, especially when the cops had the wrong address.

My point was more that the judiciary is openly getting really tired of this shit

Some places. You also have arguments like "police aren't in the habit of paying for damaged property" being an effective argument against the takings clause of the 5th amendment when the blow up someone's house, because the constitution is apparently opt-in.

[Rolan7]

Some places. You also have arguments like "police aren't in the habit of paying for damaged property" being an effective argument against the takings clause of the 5th amendment when the blow up someone's house, because the constitution is apparently opt-in.

Legal Eagle and some animators present:  The Case of the House the Police Blew Up

[wierd]

In what is certainly a long line of "Worst ways to score highest in the nation" moments, my home state has once more proven the mettle of its inhabitants.

https://www.kwch.com/2020/07/17/study-kansas-second-least-responsible-state-during-covid-19/


But this was nothing new to me-- I actually saw the throngs of stupid people without masks, bringing their screaming spawn with them to the store as they zoomed around like caffeinated fools, breathing and touching on everything while "mama" looked on in tunnel-vision 1000-mile stares during the Memorial Day weekend. (I was forced to go shopping because I had run out of dry goods. I came wearing a mask, and with hand sanitizer in my pocket. They came with energetic kids, and disdain for public health.)

[Eschar]

In the midst of everything spiraling downwards - the last straw being the WH blocking the CDC from providing information to a committee - I can feel myself descending into apathy. There is nothing I can do, this is at the whims of the powerful, I can do nothing but shut down and take it and hope to weather the destruction. That is all I can do, that is all that can ever be done. The old lesson, that in the face of hostile power the voice is useless, is kicking in.

That's probably not what my parents intended to teach me/intended for me to find out (or is it?) by telling me to never question them and by refusing to ever justify themselves, their only 'response' being "because I said so" (not even getting into the Good Book's excuses)... but here we are. At heart those are the same lessons: that against those above you, thought and language are helpless.

There is nothing I can do. There is no way to resist. I cannot affect these events. Down we go.

So says the lesson, the authoritarians' ancient cry: power is all, to listen is to you is to give up our force, force is power, and you have none.

[hector13]

It apparently only takes 3% of the population to protest something in order for change to happen.

Something like that anyway, BBC article told me and everyfing.

[wierd]

I take pyrrhic solace in a simple fact:


For all the bluster, posture, spear rattle and shield beating-- The so called "Powerful" do not posses actual power.  All of it derives from the complicity of those beneath them.

Because of this, they can never dictate reality (no matter how much they think they can.)  As a result, when they try to dictate away harsh outside forces, like the spread of disease, through indignant petulance and political spin-- THEY ALWAYS FAIL. 


It is my hope, that deep down, once the reality that COVID-19 is going to be with us for a very long while (due to reservoir populations in wildlife areas, et al), and that pretending it is just a little flu will completely destroy all productive capacity of a complex society (because the people that could do the work are all fucking dead, or bed-bound with chronic respiratory and neurological consequences of the systemic mismanagement of the crisis), throwing the so called "Power" of the "powerful" right out the goddamn window.

Some small part of me wants to hope that people will put two and two together, and figure out that "what is comfortable and easy" leads down this road, inexorably, and teach their children better, and (at least for a time), a better world can grow out of the decaying corpse of the old.

But then I remember where I live, and the best I hope for is just surviving with my health intact.

[nenjin]

In the midst of everything spiraling downwards - the last straw being the WH blocking the CDC from providing information to a committee - I can feel myself descending into apathy. There is nothing I can do, this is at the whims of the powerful, I can do nothing but shut down and take it and hope to weather the destruction. That is all I can do, that is all that can ever be done. The old lesson, that in the face of hostile power the voice is useless, is kicking in.

On the other hand...survival is the most basic human instinct of all. Don't just stay healthy, improve your health despite "all this." If the outer world is hell, and there's nothing you can do, then turn inward and make the thing you can control, you, better. If for no other reason than if things really are taking a turn for the Post-Apocalypse, it'd probably be a good time to be able to run a good ways without being out of breath, or so cramped up you can't move. I dunno, my reaction to the last four years and 2020 and the fact there's nothing I can really do about it has been to try and focus on cultivating my strengths.

[wierd]

You know...  This is setting off conflict inside my brain.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103108000693

And SCREW ELSEVIER.
http://communicationcache.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/10887248/on_being_happy_and_gullible-_mood_effects_on_skepticism_and_the_detection_of_deception.pdf

(abstract:)

Are we more likely to believe or disbelieve another person depending on our mood state? Based on past research on interpersonal communication and recent work on affect and social cognition, we predicted and found that negative mood increased and positive mood decreased people’s skepticism and their ability to detect deception, consistent with the more externally focused, accommodative processing style promoted by negative affect. After a mood induction using positive, neutral or negative films, participants viewed deceptive or truthful interviews with individuals who denied committing a theft. Judgments of the targets’ guilt and their truthfulness were collected. As predicted, negative mood increased judges’ skepticism towards the targets, and improved their accuracy in detecting deceptive communications, while judges in a positive mood were more trusting and gullible. The relevance of these findings for everyday judgments of trust and the detection of deception are considered, and their implications for recent affect-cognition theories are discussed.

Why is this you ask?

It plays to my own intrinsic biases of observation, which is an immediate red flag for me. (Apparently I have trained myself to try and live in a constant state of skeptic dissonance.)

Additionally, it suggests that political groups, like the former USSR and the current US GOP, have been playing a strategy that works on this premise for decades. (Perhaps thousands of years even-- See also, Rome's "Bread and Circuses".)


If taken from the angle of "Happy people are more gullible, and thus easier to convince of a dubious narrative for political gain", it makes PERFECT and TOTAL sense to ignore all warning signs, downplay all warning signs, and ostracize anyone that would dare puncture the comfortable illusion that all is well, because once people are disillusioned, they cease being happy, and begin questioning things more earnestly and more intelligently. (At least according to the premise of this study.)


Again, this reinforces my own internal dogma (which I find dis-favorable, paradoxically): It reinforces the notion that groups like the GOP exist exclusively through the power of mass social manipulation for the express and exclusive purpose of getting into, and sustaining political power over others.  No other reason. (Otherwise, those other reasons would be at odds with the MO demonstrated with telling the biggest possible lies to keep people happy, and thus uninterested in actual truthfulness.)

I am of the opinion that this insight needs further investigation.

[dragdeler]

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