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[JoshuaFH]

I'm curious tho, has pointing out recorded instances of him saying the opposite things in the past ever worked on him? I get this feeling he'd just brush it off as #fakenews and hardcore trumpists would agree with him, despite clear, physical evidence to the contrary (because the alternative is admitting you fucked up and we can't have that)

You pretty much answered your own question. He changes positions more often than your average politician.

He changes positions more often than the porn star he tried to pay off.

[smjjames]

I'm curious tho, has pointing out recorded instances of him saying the opposite things in the past ever worked on him? I get this feeling he'd just brush it off as #fakenews and hardcore trumpists would agree with him, despite clear, physical evidence to the contrary (because the alternative is admitting you fucked up and we can't have that)

You pretty much answered your own question. He changes positions more often than your average politician.

He changes positions more often than the porn star he tried to pay off.

That one is hilarious at least, lolzles.

Anyhow, from NY Magazine Trump and his staff didn't know what a shutdown would actually do. You know, it doesn't seem all that hard to look at past shutdowns, but then again, most shutdowns don't usually last more than maybe a week and don't involve such intractable problems as Trump being stubborn.

Also, given that Fox news is the one that goaded him into the shutdown, I'm still waiting for them to accidentially goad him into starting a war, a la USS Maine.

[Dunamisdeos]

“The question I have is: When are the Democrats going to start negotiating?” Mr. Pence said.

Ha ha ha ha Pence, no.

[MrRoboto75]

“The question I have is: When are the Democrats going to start negotiating?” Mr. Pence said.

Ha ha ha ha Pence, no.

"no u"

[Zangi]

Realistically, the democrats could probably get some things on their bucket list done if they negotiate for the wall....
At least that is what I'd be going for anyways.  Everyone wins something.

[Trekkin]

Realistically, the democrats could probably get some things on their bucket list done if they negotiate for the wall....
At least that is what I'd be going for anyways.  Everyone wins something.

But why compromise? (I realize how odd it is for me to be saying that.)Trump owns this entire farrago by his own volition, he's completely insane, and McConnell can't confidently override his inevitable veto. Nobody but Trump and his racist base wants the wall. Even if they did want to try, neither Trump nor McConnell can credibly guarantee that the other half of that compromise would actually materialize in whatever bill came out to fund the government once Democrats capitulate, and Trump can't even be counted on to sign a bill containing border wall funding: suppose he decides he senses weakness and ratchets up his demand to $10 billion just to prove what a good negotiator he is?

Not only is there no incentive for Democrats to cave, there's not even a reliable path for them to do so in a controlled fashion.

[Egan_BW]

I'd tell him he gets one dollar for the wall if he promises to do everything the dems say for the next two years and see what happens.

[Zangi]

It is not caving if you get Trump to agree to a few things that would not be palatable to the typical republican politician. 
Plus, bonus points for manipulating Trump into throwing the republicans under the bus in the process when they become the final hurdle to getting the spending bill passed.

[BurnedToast]

Realistically, the democrats could probably get some things on their bucket list done if they negotiate for the wall....
At least that is what I'd be going for anyways.  Everyone wins something.

No. This is economic terrorism, and if you give in to terrorism you just get more terrorism. I don't think you understand the situation, and how stupid this all is.

Spoiler: stupid situation (click to show/hide)

On dec. 19th, the senate proposed a clean funding bill to avoid a shutdown. Trump supported the bill, and it passed the senate 100 - 0.

On dec. 20th, after listening to his daily dose of hard-right TV pundits slamming him, trump changed his mind and opposed the bill.

On dec. 21st, the outgoing republican controlled house passed a funding bill that also included 5 billion in funding for trump's wall, instead of passing the senate bill.

Also dec. 21, trump demands mcconnell suspend the filibuster and pass the house version of the bill with only republican support. Mcconnell knows the support is not there and refuses.

Congress is adjourned for the holiday.

Jan. 3rd the new, democrat controlled house is seated. The same day, they pass two bills to end the shutdown - both are almost identical to the clean spending bill that the senate already passed 100 - 0

Also jan. 3, mcconnell refuses to put either of the bills the house passed up for vote, because trump has threatened to veto them if they pass

TL;DR - congress has the votes to stop the shutdown. The senate refuses to do so, or rather mcconnell even refuses to let them vote on it because it would look really, really bad for the GOP - either a bill passes with strong bipartisan support and trump vetos it and they let it die, or the congress is forced to publicly break with him and override his veto enraging his base. The shutdown is 100% trump and mconnell's fault - either one of them could end it tonight, and the idea that the democrats are somehow to blame for a bill that passed 100 - 0 is so completely absurd it's almost unbelievable, even these days when unbelievable things happen constantly.

Fake edit: Trekkin is also absolutely right. Trump is not stable, he might demand more funding... he might demand the concessions made to the democrats are removed from the bill before he signs it. He might demand something else - who knows? The democrats have no incentive to negotiate with him because I don't think he's ever negotiated in good faith in his life.

[Zangi]

Huh, I see, so he could easily renege on specific parts of a bill and sign it.

[Trekkin]

Huh, I see, so he could easily renege on specific parts of a bill and sign it.

Technically no: he can only sign it, veto it, or do nothing. He can, however, declare that he won't sign a bill that doesn't meet some specific condition. The worry is that everyone comes to an agreement to fund the government with [X] concessions for Y dollars of Wall funding, it gets to Trump's desk, and he vetoes it saying he wants more money or fewer concessions and we're back to square one.

[Karnewarrior]

I do like the image of the House Democrats acting incredibly un-Democrat and smug and sending Trump a funding bill with the budget for his wall being actually just 1 dollar.

Like that GalCiv let's play where the player bothered the Drengin by offering to give them a credit if they surrendered their entire empire, because they knew the Drengin couldn't invade their homeworld without handing the game to the other AI. The Dregin continued to get more and more irritated without actually being able to do anything.

Seeing Trump in a similar position could be interesting. He really has no way out of this without destroying something he holds dear, now.

[Frumple]

Realistically, the democrats could probably get some things on their bucket list done if they negotiate for the wall....
At least that is what I'd be going for anyways.  Everyone wins something.

No. This is economic terrorism, and if you give in to terrorism you just get more terrorism. I don't think you understand the situation, and how stupid this all is.

More than that, the GOP largely understands the wall is massively fucking stupid. It's worth damn near negative "worth" in terms of what the party proper would give for it. They have little interest in negotiating anything for it at this point, as anything they give up would be massively more valuable than the wall.

Add on the angle you mention, and the extent the dem base would roast them bloody alive for budging on the subject, and the democrats/sodding sane people just don't have much maneuvering room. This is goddamn entirely on trump and mitch "rat-fucking turtle" mcconnell.

[smjjames]

That speech was definetly scripted and whoever wrote it doesn't know how to write a speech, too rambly and didn't get to the point quickly enough. It also sounded like building pretense for declaring national emergency in order to build the wall (which he didn't do).

[Doomblade187]

That speech was definetly scripted and whoever wrote it doesn't know how to write a speech, too rambly and didn't get to the point quickly enough. It also sounded like building pretense for declaring national emergency in order to build the wall (which he didn't do).

Just because he didn't today doesn't mean he won't. His team may be hedging their bets and trying to soften it if he does? I didn't hear the speech.