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[wierd]

Seriously; I think all bernie needs to do is run this time.  The DNC itself has revised its rules concerning how super-delegates must act, so that they cannot electioneer the primaries without also gaining real popular support first-- The people that wanted bernie still want him. Hillary is just as unelectable as ever. The GOP cannot hope to pull something more eldritch-horror than trump out of its hat. 

I really do think Bernie would win this time if he ran.

[sluissa]

Seriously; I think all bernie needs to do is run this time.  The DNC itself has revised its rules concerning how super-delegates must act, so that they cannot electioneer the primaries without also gaining real popular support first-- The people that wanted bernie still want him. Hillary is just as unelectable as ever. The GOP cannot hope to pull something more eldritch-horror than trump out of its hat. 

I really do think Bernie would win this time if he ran.

I like bernie, but he's getting up there in age. Not to mention there ARE a lot of Hillary fan dems who still blame him on some level for her loss, given there were visible numbers of bernie supporters who went on to not vote for her. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's risky.

[wierd]

He's a whopping 8 years older than Clinton.

Let that sink in.

[Hanslanda]

He's a whopping 8 years older than Clinton.

Let that sink in.

And only a few older than Trump IIRC

[Cathar]

I like bernie, but he's getting up there in age. Not to mention there ARE a lot of Hillary fan dems who still blame him on some level for her loss, given there were visible numbers of bernie supporters who went on to not vote for her. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's risky.

If I was a bernie voter back in 2016, this is precisely what I would have done. You vote for the dude you agree with, not for the dude you don't agree with, has a history of outright disgusting behavior and just happen not to be trump.

If Hillary voters are consistant with themselves, let just put Bernie Sanders forward and have them apply the medecine they prescribe to others. Sanders voters won't vote for Hillary, Hillary voters will vote for Sanders ; you've got your solution right here

[Kagus]

Your primary logical fallacy is expecting people to act consistently or reasonably.


I might actually go through the pain that is absentee voting in the event of an El Bernardo Grande candidacy...

[Cathar]

Yes I know, this was half sarcasm, and half tongue and cheek joke where I pretend words have meaning anymore once the presidential race starts

[Rolan7]

I like bernie, but he's getting up there in age. Not to mention there ARE a lot of Hillary fan dems who still blame him on some level for her loss, given there were visible numbers of bernie supporters who went on to not vote for her. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's risky.

If I was a bernie voter back in 2016, this is precisely what I would have done. You vote for the dude you agree with, not for the dude you don't agree with, has a history of outright disgusting behavior and just happen not to be trump.

If Hillary voters are consistant with themselves, let just put Bernie Sanders forward and have them apply the medecine they prescribe to others. Sanders voters won't vote for Hillary, Hillary voters will vote for Sanders ; you've got your solution right here

Right... reward the "Democrats" who don't respect the results of the Democratic primary.  Support the third-party candidate who only joined the party for its power, then didn't *quite* get the party's support.

I don't blame Sanders supporters for wanting the Sanders platform (though I think it was completely unrealistic, *at that time*).  But "you vote for the dude you agree with" is pretty juvenile.

Anyway, Clinton did little wrong besides being a corporate Democrat, but I don't think I'll vote for her in the primary.  The Republicans and Progressives have destroyed her reputation, it's not practical for her to win.  Besides which, we can now afford to try someone more progressive, so this is actually good.

[Cathar]

I mean it wasn't really serious a comment to begin with, I know the dems will never allow a sanders to win, because they care about their bottom line. That said after discussions with a lot of desillusionned voters, I came to the conclusion that this (more than anything else) is the reason between trump's election ; the idea that vote doesn't really matter because the outcome of the election has already been negociated between close doors among friends of good company.

On a equally serious note, Sanders is not the radical left wing extremist radical he built his mythos about. Like Chomsky said, he's a new dealer, not a socialist. He's a tame guy, akin to the european center left on a number of issues.

On Hillary's reputation ; okay this is just my opinion but I think it is deserved. Reps lied about her, exagerrated the truth on every single occasion, granted, this is what they do. But you go back in time, before she was in the spotlight as she was in 2016, and see how she and her husband delt with a man like Hitchen and you realize that she is definitely not a friend. So my humble position is ; maybe put forward someone who is ?

Edit : No, really, you do not, never, vote for someone you do not want to come into power. In the tradition of vote, this is the point of abstaining. In assemblies who perform votes (like in share holder meetings, or a worker unions), "I abstain" is a legitimate vote option (and is distinct from "I refuse to participate"). You as a citizen are under no obligation to legitimize the coming into power of someone you deem unreliable or dangerous, and it is the job of the candidates to persuade you.

As for this idea of primaries, you also are under no obligation, not even morale, to respect it. This is a glorified opinion poll held by a private organization.

[Enemy post]

No, really, you do not, never, vote for someone you do not want to come into power.

I think if I could only vote for people I genuinely trusted with power, I'd never be able to vote at all.

[EnigmaticHat]

I love Bernie and what he represents, but after two senile presidents in 40 years I'm not voting for someone that old.  Yeah he's clearly keeping himself active unlike our current president but I'm not risking it.  What if he gets re-elected at 83?

Sincerely hope the democrats find someone acceptable to both Bernie and Hillary supporters in 2020.  And that we field a small group of candidates.  Republicans have given us a nice blueprint for how not to act.

[scriver]

No, really, you do not, never, vote for someone you do not want to come into power.

I think if I could only vote for people I genuinely trusted with power, I'd never be able to vote at all.

You could always vote for me!

*sips evening tea deceitfully*

[Enemy post]

I think if I could only vote for people I genuinely trusted with power, I'd never be able to vote at all.

You could always vote for me!

*sips evening tea deceitfully*

Sorry, but I'm already voting for Hanslanda.

[Rolan7]

I mean it wasn't really serious a comment to begin with, I know the dems will never allow a sanders to win, because they care about their bottom line. That said after discussions with a lot of desillusionned voters, I came to the conclusion that this (more than anything else) is the reason between trump's election ; the idea that vote doesn't really matter because the outcome of the election has already been negociated between close doors among friends of good company.

On a equally serious note, Sanders is not the radical left wing extremist radical he built his mythos about. Like Chomsky said, he's a new dealer, not a socialist. He's a tame guy, akin to the european center left on a number of issues.

On Hillary's reputation ; okay this is just my opinion but I think it is deserved. Reps lied about her, exagerrated the truth on every single occasion, granted, this is what they do. But you go back in time, before she was in the spotlight as she was in 2016, and see how she and her husband delt with a man like Hitchen and you realize that she is definitely not a friend. So my humble position is ; maybe put forward someone who is ?

Edit : No, really, you do not, never, vote for someone you do not want to come into power. In the tradition of vote, this is the point of abstaining. In assemblies who perform votes (like in share holder meetings, or a worker unions), "I abstain" is a legitimate vote option (and is distinct from "I refuse to participate"). You as a citizen are under no obligation to legitimize the coming into power of someone you deem unreliable or dangerous, and it is the job of the candidates to persuade you.

As for this idea of primaries, you also are under no obligation, not even morale, to respect it. This is a glorified opinion poll held by a private organization.

Part of me really wants to quibble over this, but I'd rather emphasize that I'm excited we'll probably nominate a much more progressive candidate than Clinton this time.  And if that candidate wins, they're more likely to actually get things done with the Congress we'll have in 2020.

Spoiler: Quibbling (click to show/hide)

Voting in a Democratic Primary doesn't force you to vote for their candidate, no.  But it ought to be a factor, since the point is to unify a diverse base behind one person.

If there hadn't been primaries, the 2016 election might have had ~5 Republican candidates, a populist, a Libertarian, a Clinton, a Green, and "socialist".  Guess who's winning that?  The Clinton.

But the Republican party is smart, so they run a Primary to combine their voting power.  They even let the populist and Libertarian join, because it just strengthens the alliance (and there's no chance in hell of those fringe ideas actually *winning* the primary... oops...)

The Democrats also hold a primary.  The Green doesn't join because she's too badass, like, I actually have a lot of respect for her.  The socialist *does* join (He became a Democrat in 2015).  We've argued in circles about whether the party gave him a fair chance, or sabotaged his run, but I have to disagree with "they'd never let him win"...  He almost DID win.  It was close.  And Hillary's supporters would have respected the spirit of the primary, despite him being literally a Democrat In Name Only (honestly, he's too progressive and independent to be a typical Democrat).

But I'm really not looking to blame Progressives for lacking faith in Hillary, I get that.  The blame for 2016 mostly lies with the Republican Party catering to populists and worse.  They were *vicious* in their primary, telling Trump exactly how they felt, but then he won and...  they all fell in line, pretending like it never happened.  Which is sorta how a Primary is supposed to go.  It's not how the Democratic primary went, though, because we have idealist ideas.

I would like to add that abstaining is not a good idea.  Vote for a third party, even write someone in.  Abstention reads as apathy, not protest.  The turnout (of eligible voters) was 60.2%...  If that 39.8% voted for third parties, we could actually bring down this monstrous 2-party quagmire.  We could actually start voting for candidates we want, instead of strategically against candidates we can't afford.

[JoshuaFH]

I love Bernie and what he represents, but after two senile presidents in 40 years I'm not voting for someone that old.  Yeah he's clearly keeping himself active unlike our current president but I'm not risking it.  What if he gets re-elected at 83?

Sincerely hope the democrats find someone acceptable to both Bernie and Hillary supporters in 2020.  And that we field a small group of candidates.  Republicans have given us a nice blueprint for how not to act.

Or they gave us a blueprint on HOW to act! We can do it, we have the technology, we can make a bigger, better, older, ORANGER Trump! He'll lie more often! Be culpable for more sexual misconduct! The incoherent diatribes even more frequent and senseless! Even more mean-spirited and bigoted! Even more myopic and impulsive! Get even more erect over other dictators and try to emulate them even more shamelessly!

If Trump can be as stupid as he is by accident, imagine how stupid we can be if we TRY!