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[Jopax]

So the US is out of the Iran deal?

That's neat :I

[martinuzz]

I'm still not sure if it's good or bad. If recent Israeli intel is right, it might not be such a bad idea after all.
Regardless, it's going to divide US and EU, and that's not good.

[Jopax]

You mean the several years old stuff they paraded out recently?

[smjjames]

I'm still not sure if it's good or bad. If recent Israeli intel is right, it might not be such a bad idea after all.
Regardless, it's going to divide US and EU, and that's not good.

Which recent intel? The one where they gave old news?

They're also saying something about concerns of Iran being on the cusp of an attack on Israel, which would be really dumb as that could draw in the US if Israel demands it (we'd have to abandon them otherwise, and that is anathema to the Republicans and Trumps base).

[birdy51]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Israel's intelligence personally. While I trust them to be able to collect information, I don't trust them to be honest. The fact that they tried to defraud those who had a part in the deal is shady as all fuck.

[smjjames]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Israel's intelligence personally. While I trust them to be able to collect information, I don't trust them to be honest. The fact that they tried to defraud those who had a part in the deal is shady as all fuck.

I think those were retired spies and not Mossad directly? Either way, it's definetly shady and at the same time not surprising that Israeli intel got involved.

[SaberToothTiger]

I'm sure that Israel is an utterly trustworthy and impartial authority in the middle east. It's not like they have set Iran as rival for the dank power projection.

[Dunamisdeos]

I mean, I have a hard time hating on them, even when they are super shady. Their primary ethnicity has been the victim of multiple attempts at outright genocide, the majority of their neighbors hate them with a burning passion for ethnic reasons (a debatable subject in and of itself), and they have no reason to think that their allies won't drop them as soon as it becomes convenient.

They don't actually offer anything to other major world powers, I think their primary exports are jewelry and gemstones and the like. It seems like most major world powers are allies with them for purely moral reasons based on the above-mentioned history.

If I was in their shoes I'd put myself first, too.

[smjjames]

I thought most of that burning passion was due to the way that they were inserted in there as a country and pushed out the Arabs that were already there, not purely because of ethnicity/religion.

That burning hate seems to be softening somewhat though, and the Saudis are finding themselves aligned with the Israelis. I mean, tensions between the Israelis and the Palestinians are still as high as ever, but the neighbors aren't so likely to want to kill them as they were in the past.

[Frumple]

I'm still not sure if it's good or bad. If recent Israeli intel is right, it might not be such a bad idea after all.
Regardless, it's going to divide US and EU, and that's not good.

Burning years of negotiations on a non-proliferation/denuclearization agreement to the ground, particularly in the face of stuff like the NK negotiations, is a fucking terrible idea from top to bottom. There's nothing good about the decision unless you considering pissing on obama's efforts and american credibility abroad to be a good thing.

[smjjames]

I'm still not sure if it's good or bad. If recent Israeli intel is right, it might not be such a bad idea after all.
Regardless, it's going to divide US and EU, and that's not good.

Burning years of negotiations on a non-proliferation/denuclearization agreement to the ground, particularly in the face of stuff like the NK negotiations, is a fucking terrible idea from top to bottom. There's nothing good about the decision unless you considering pissing on obama's efforts and american credibility abroad to be a good thing.

Kim Jong Un himself reportedly said that he doesn't care about the Iran deal, so, it might not affect it as much, but theres still the hit to credibility and all that.

[Dunamisdeos]

I thought most of that burning passion was due to the way that they were inserted in there as a country and pushed out the Arabs that were already there, not purely because of ethnicity/religion.

That burning hate seems to be softening somewhat though, and the Saudis are finding themselves aligned with the Israelis. I mean, tensions between the Israelis and the Palestinians are still as high as ever, but the neighbors aren't so likely to want to kill them as they were in the past.

Yeah, that's why i added the caveat in parenthesis there :3

There are a lot of factors in play there, and I'm glad to see those tensions soften at all, even if it's relative.

[smjjames]

The difference only matters to Trump though, and theres the whole credibility issues going forward.

It's likely Kim Jong-Un knows something about how the deal was felt politically here, and Congress has been incredibly vocal at times about it, so, he could be shrugging it off as a political decision.

[misko27]

That said, there's some bad precedents we are fighting here. Consider Ukraine: gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for the US and Russia agreeing to respect its territory. And look how that played out? And the Qaddafi precedent: He gave up the nuclear program in 2003 in exchange for sanctions relief and the thawing of relations. And look where he is now?

Evidence exists, and looking at that evidence, it's not obvious to the tinpot dictators of the world (not that Ukraine deserves to be lumped in here with Qaddafi and Kim; it's nuclear program was leftover. But the precedent is still there) that denuclearizing or ceasing to pursue nuclear weapons is necessarily in their best interest. If Kim (or even any other future state in a similar situation) look at the past, it's not exactly comforting. They may still do it, but it'll be harder than it needs to be...

[Folly]

...and theres the whole credibility issues going forward.

This.
Trump is boasting about how going forward, he will ensure that America always does what they say they will do...while simultaneously he is tearing up agreements made by past presidents, showing that any document signed by a US president is meaningless as soon as the next guy takes the office.
Right now North Korea has every reason to expect that nothing Trump says in the coming meeting will have any lasting value.